Why do women give each other such a hard time?

caroldecker Thu 31-Jul-14 00:33:18

The vast majority of denegration i see in the press is by women for women

From publications of which the media company is run by men.

Right, and the press is just so much the definition of what is good, right and real? Or is it just a massive global money making enterprise, run by and for the benefit of the men who own it? Excuse me if I literally can't be arsed to take it seriously as a clear and straightforward barometer of prevailing social reality.

The vast majority of denegration i see in the press is by women for women

Ask my old line manager. We got on great, had a real laugh and she was so supportive. After an internal restructure I was moved into another team and she turned into a f**king bitch. We've fallen out so many times since and she remains totally loyal to her new team to my expense. I don't understand why she turned on me other than to show her new team how much she backs her own.

Go ahead and point it out then. I just did a very quick Google and the Daily Mail's readership up to March2013 (because those are the figures I first happened across) was just over 8% of the adult population, with only just over half being female. So even if we are generous and say women make up 5% of that 8%, 5% of the adult population are women who read the Daily Mail.

I don't experience this in my own life. Women here on MN are smart and supportive, sometimes critical and combative but I've never experienced that as "bitchy" most likely because I don't think in those terms. In my professional life, women have been my champions, mentors, supporters and friends consistently. In my personal life, women are the ones who talk to me endlessly about parenting and work, about the news or what's for dinner. Most of the women I know are brilliant, actually and I have not heard women speaking in a derogative manner about other women that we know (though some may have criticised public figures) since my very early twenties. I know if I initiated such a conversation with any of my five or so closest friends, I would not be indulged.

So no, I do not recognise this.

I would like to point out that the majority of daily mail readers are women and it is mostly women's magazines which have an equivalent 'sidebar of shame'

The word competitive actually means, in the original Latin, is 'to seek together'. Competition in this sense means you are bringing out the best in each other.

I don't recognise this in my own life. The only person who has said to me that women are bitches is my MiL but she is happy to say she actually just does think that men are better than women. She's also the only one around me that would criticize a woman based on her clothes, or her voice, or whatever. She thinks I am ridiculous and hysterical, but I know that's just the voice of the patriarchy whispering in her ears.

That's not right either ffs

But the types that do it are...

Competitive doesn't mean bitchy. I have a friend who I play sport with, we are competitive but supportive. There is a type of woman who likes to pull other women down to make themselves feel better but they are they types that do seem to crave shallow male approval. They get disproportionate press imo.

There was a thread the other day about body hair and someone (sorry can't remember who) pointed out that men make the rules then women police other women's conformance. I wonder if this is a related symptom?

I think you're probably right. In my recent experience it has been the presence of men in the group which has precipitated the outbreak of bitchiness in the women.

I don't find women are in constant competition with each other. Not my friends, nor my acquaintances, nor my work colleagues.

I wasn't very well programmed by my mother though, from a patriarchy perspective. It's possible there are women out there trying to compete with me and I've failed to notice.

I guess I'm trying to say that it seems to happen in pockets and some people get more abuse from other women than average. There was a thread the other day about body hair and someone (sorry can't remember who) pointed out that men make the rules then women police other women's conformance. I wonder if this is a related symptom?

Be my guest

1. Didn't work, and not because 'some' aren't thinking.

1. Not really.

Can we get back to the discussion now?

I do think that there is a derail going on here. But it isn't me.

1. Thank you, but it was more of an intended novel use of it - maybe a little too 'thinking out of the box' for some.

1. Some carry

Beatrix -

1. I've never seen anyone misinterpret the phrase 'what about teh menz' before, so nice work on that

2. A thread in Feminism entitled, 'why do women give each other such a hard time', carries the implication that men don't (give women a hard time). Seems legit to address this in the thread.

No beatrix. Just focusing on men's behaviour towards women.

'What about the menz' is when you focus on what happens to men when the thread is about what happens to women. If you notice I was still focusing on what happens to women.

There are a lot of women where I work. On the whole, we are a really supportive bunch (with a couple of notable exceptions). The men are aloof, not supportive, not combative. Unless, and as we're making sweeping generalisations here, there is a mixed group of the younger contingent, in which case, the claws can noticeably come out.

However, I think this says more about young women wanting to conform to their peer's norms in order to fit in than that they are suddenly possessed by bitchy fairies.