"Women against feminism" WTF?!!

Being wary of strangers at night is a natural reaction. Being alone, in low visibility is being vulnerable. Whilst "all men are potential rapists" covers this scenario, it is often a contextless statement that can sound needlessly antagonistic and shit-stirry, with the above scenario being applied after the fact as a justification, rather than an actual reason for having said it.

"But I don't know any woman who takes practical steps to manage the potential risk from people they know."

i think many/most women do, though not on a conscious level perhaps, even with men they know very well. when we've had discussions on here about how women occupy space, the verbal language and tone they use, their body language, many find that they are in some ways behaving in certain ways to avoid potential threats to themselves, whether verbal or physical. so they are more likely to avoid taking up too much space, be conciliatory and mollifying in tone etc. it's very ingrained and socialised, and women who don't conform to that may find themselves at personal risk. thinking about it rationally, they are highly unlikely to be actually fearing rape in, say, a business meeting. but the violent behaviour of other men still means that the men around them benefit from the privilege of that ingrained fear

But if you do walk through the wrong part of time in the wrong football kit on derby day, and get beaten up, the fact that you were wearing the wrong colour top can't be brought up and used against you in court. And historically that isn't the case with rape.

Agreed bullets. If I walk into a strange pub, people might not like my accent, or the way I dress, or how I conduct myself. If I walk into a pub on match day with the wrong football top on, and get jumped, some people will say, 'What are you going in there for wearing your Spurs/Arsenal/Utd top? Asking for trouble, dickhead!'

It's a nasty way to think, this victim-blaming. I should be able to dress or speak how I like. You will always get idiots who will condemn you, though.

my point, which I obviously made badly, is that even women who disagree with the statement and claim that it's offensive do actually apply it (subconsciously) to their own lives in a practical way. But only in relation to strangers.

You see, that's a big, fat assumption right there. But to assume this is a legitimate standpoint because you are free to think what you want. However, I think such assumptions are one of the fundamental sticking points that women have with feminism (and there I go assuming!). Which takes us back to the OP.

True, I take your point just.

You have made the point about strangers again, bullets. Many people here have pointed out that women who are assaulted are far more likely to be assaulted by people they know, in domestic situations. So you need to be more on your guard at home, or in a home containing a male who may be your husband, son, relative or acquaintance.

I'm so sorry. I hope I didn't come across as insensitive.

I agree with you women will be on the alert. I'm not sure, for me, that's what justifies 'all men are potential rapists' as a useful feminist phrase, but I am probably not explaining very well, and it's not important.

SirChenjin - I'd be interested to know what more you think there is to "being female" than a person's biology?

Certainly, there is a lot more to being "me, Sollers" than my biology, but all my experiences of "being female" are directed related to the fact that I have female biology. I honestly can't think of any "female" aspects of my life that are not.

I have nothing against transwomen, and will always respect their choice of lifestyle* but I don't believe that they are actually female. Male/female for me is a biological assignation, not a chosen identity.

*(tbh, I'm not even bothered about them sharing female-only spaces, but then again I'm lucky enough to have never be seriously assaulted by a male; I might feel differently if that were the case.)

Oh, I see.

Sure, but that's an irrational response really. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, but the men who're most likely to rape us are men who aren't strangers.

just - after the tube bombings, I definitely felt my heart beat faster when I was on the tube with someone who fit that demographic. I'm not proud of it, but I'm not going to lie and pretend I didn't worry about it. I also worry every time I fly that the plane is going to crash - I know statistically it's unlikely, but I do get afraid.

The difference (it seems to me) is that while terrorist attacks by Muslim extremists in the UK are rare, rape isn't.