"Women against feminism" WTF?!!

I found this interesting itspronouncedmetrosexual.com/2012/12/reasons-people-believe-feminism-hates-men/

As I've already said, if a young woman's first experience of feminism or feminist writing is from the idiots of 'tumblr feminism' then it's absolutely no wonder they're not willing to engage with feminism. This is a problem and it needs combating. Luckily feminists are now speaking out against them and are being noticed more, separating themselves from the misandrists.

My instinct is to say that these women are handmaidens and man-pleasers

Sorry but don't you realise how offensive that is? If a woman doesn't subscribe to the feminist concept she automatically is a man pleaser?
Isn't this the sort of bullshit we're supposed to be fighting against?

"I don't take it as they are rejecting the whole of feminism. What they object to is the negative aspects of/associated with feminism. That isn't too say the concept of feminism is negative, it's acknowledging that it can and has been misused."

Could you give me some examples of the negative aspects?

How can you take one negative thing you associate with feminism and dismiss the whole concept and NOT take even a fleeting glance at patriarchy or just the current set up pretty much everywhere and think the same thing?!

Selective blindness?

I find it completely baffling that people will take one thing that somebody they perceive to be feminist says that they don't like and reject the whole of feminism

I don't take it as they are rejecting the whole of feminism. What they object to is the negative aspects of/associated with feminism. That isn't too say the concept of feminism is negative, it's acknowledging that it can and has been misused. Failing to acknowledge that is a massive case of denial, and trying to equate it with a wholesale rejection of feminist principals of equality is disingenuous imo.

It's a bit like saying the Union Jack stands for democracy and freedom and denying that anyone could want to distance themselves from it because some people associate it with racism.

Some people are buying into the myth here that the majority of assaults by men on women are committed in dark alleys by strangers. I believe that statistically, male on female assaults occur between people who know each other in domestic situations. So if you want to be on your guard, do it at home with your partner.

Sorry, my example of walking home late at night wasn't the best. I wanted to distinguish between saying that all men have the potential to be a rapist, and the fact that from a woman's perspective, we simply don't know who is a rapist and who isn't. Any individual man you meet could potentially be a rapist.

"All humans are capable of vile, violent, despicable behaviour. Do women cross the road when passing another woman in case she is a violent mugger? I doubt it."

Er, probably because the chances of another woman being a violent mugger is practically zero? The chances of another woman making a comment on your appearance or saying something uncalled for is practically zero?

If I was in a crowd, I would protect my purse from pickpockets- I would not consider the gender of the people around me remotely relevant. Walking down a lonely road at night? Yep- the gender of the only other person around sure as hell is relevant. 99 men out of a 100, 999 out of 1000- no problem. But experience has taught women to be watchful for the 1.

Slarti nope that's not what I'm saying. I don't see women making man hating comments in the name of feminism. I often see men or antifeminist women making man-hating statements ("they can't help themselves") in the name of equalism - whatever that is (it's nothing).

I agree with Hakluyt. It's like when MRAs say that someone somewhere on the internet said that boys should be killed at birth and therefore all feminism is evil when girls are actually being killed before birth in the millions because of patriarchal values. The possibility, however unrealistic, of boys being killed is so much more important than the actual reality of literally millions of girls being killed before and after birth because of their observed biological sex.

Makes me want to quit life when I see young women posting this shit. Don't like feminism? Why not try going to live somewhere other than your western, reasonably affluent home. Without fail these women are middle class, educated, fairly well of white (mainly) young women who haven't yet entered the workforce or had a child. They'll be looking back at these images in 10 years and cringing at their own naivety.

Fair enough Curwen. I shall change it to

"Some women will treat all men as potential rapists."

Although my original version was based on the comment about walking home and crossing the road.

All humans are capable of vile, violent, despicable behaviour. Do women cross the road when passing another woman in case she is a violent mugger? I doubt it.

Since the 80's when I dabbled in radical feminism, there's be so much change -for example, wages fir housework, views on sex workers etc.
I think a woman should neither feel that she can't identify with feminism based on a single aspect of it, nor feel they need to 'toe the party line'!

"All men are rapists" is a line said by a fictional character in a novel. She was a woman who had been in abusive relationships without being aware of it all her life, and was at that point becoming aware of how badly she had been treated,and that, actually,for her at that point all men had been rapists. But she was a fictional character.

I find it completely baffling that people will take one thing that somebody they perceive to be feminist says that they don't like and reject the whole of feminism on the strength of it. And frequently they are things that no feminist has actually said- they are just things that the press, or anti feminists said they said. Somebody on their thread has already stated that they won't identify as a feminist because they love their husband and sons. What on earth is that about?

Given that many assaults on women are committed by men that they do know, why make that distinction, Pinkle?

That comment about men have the potential to do is inflammatory, but it is also true. I am a man, it it doesn't anger me. Women have the potential to kill their own children. They have the physical and mental capability. Just because most women don't do it doesn't make the statement wrong. It's just a bit shit-stirry.

Of course it can be hijacked, twisted and misinterpreted, as it has been by MRAs.

Are you saying the people who come out with man hating comments in the name of feminism are MRAs?

That's my understanding of the statement that all men are potential rapists. I think the actual quote 'all men are rapists' comes from a novel where it is said by a fictional radical feminist. I'm not sure any actual feminist has claimed it as a sensible statement. It's much more likely that it has been used as a way to beat feminists and claim that they all hate men. Which they don't.

So Floccinaucinihilipilificate

"All men are potential rapists"

means

"Some women will treat every man she doesn't know as a potential rapist"

Bit of a difference. And somewhat less insulting.

If you told me to my face that my DP is a 'potential rapist' I'd punch your fucking lights out Well, you sound delightful PinklePurr.

The quote is about women's pretty rational fear of men. It's not saying your DP has the potential to be a rapist. It's saying that walking home late at night, and passing your DP on the street, a woman would have no way of knowing whether he was a rapist or not, therefore treats him as a 'potential rapist' by crossing the road.

Some people see it as more straightforward and unambiguous to say they support equality, since that cannot be hijacked, twisted or misinterpreted.

Of course it can be hijacked, twisted and misinterpreted, as it has been by MRAs.

"The other quote is 'all men are potential rapists', I think. And that's true, isn't it? With the emphasis on 'potential'."

Just It would also be true to say "all Muslims are potential terrorists", "all black people are potential criminals," and "all priests are potential paedophiles" but surely we can see that simply being true doesn't make them any less insulting and inflammatory.

"This makes me want to cry. How can people be so stupid? It's not a complex idea - that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities. I'm as shocked by people not supporting feminism as I am by someone admitting they're racist or homophobic. It's simply not acceptable."

Vash You're equating people not identifying with feminism with them being against equality. If the feminism they happen to be seeing isn't supporting equality then the two positions aren't the same. Some people see it as more straightforward and unambiguous to say they support equality, since that cannot be hijacked, twisted or misinterpreted. If anything it's disingenuous to say feminism is only associated with equality and never anything different, just as it would be to claim MRAs only want equality and to not support them is misandrist.

JustTheRightBullets

If you told me to my face that my DP is a 'potential rapist' I'd punch your fucking lights out.

This article was in my Facebook feed this morning
iwantedwings.wordpress.com/2014/07/21/a-response-to-women-against-feminism/