Learning about The Beauty Myth and fat etc.

Bluebell it seems like you have misunderstood.
Not hating your body no matter what it looks like is not endorsing obesity. It is simply saying no one should hate themselves. It does not good disliking our bodies, all it does is make us unhappy not healthy.
You say fat is not attractive. That is entirely your opinion and you are stating it as fact. You do not know or control what other people think looks sexually attractive. There are a lot of very unhealthy thin people that eat loadsa junk food are they unattractive too? Or is that ok cos you can't tell?

I don't have any good advice to share, but am watching this with interest.

My DM's attitude to food and weight has had big effects on my life (I'm now 28). When I was little, DM would tell me how lovely I was, as I was 'only skin and bone.' She'd say how grotesque it was to be fat, which I internalised to the point that I called my 2 best pals 'fat and tubby' (unprovoked) when I was 4 and, understandably, they fell out with me.

As I got older, DM would tell me she was anorexic as a teenager, because her parents put so much pressure on her to be a high achiever. I have no idea why she needed to tell me this. A few years down the line, both me and my DSis begin starving ourselves and get very thin. DM is furious and asks me if I'm only doing it because she told me she was anorexic. I turn out to be a crap anorexic anyway and turn to bulimia instead but DSis gets very thin and ill.

Fast forward to now, both of us are better but, due to anxiety/depression, both of us have ended up on antidepressants over the past few years, and have, as is often the case with ADs, gained weight. Now, I don't give that much of a fuck - I'm heavier, but at least I'm not suicidal - but sometimes I do get angry, because I feel like I'm invisible and everyone must secretly have no respect for me. DSis is off ADs and is doing well. But every time she tries to fit into an old dress, she can't and she ends up in tears. She's worried the old feelings will come back.

I'm still on ADs, which is fine with me for now, but DM is desperate for me to come off them 'and the weight will just drop off.' I never see DM eat dinner. I don't remember her ever sitting down for dinner with us during my childhood.

I love my DM to bits - she has helped me through some awful times, and I feel guilty writing this, but I want to avoid any future DD I have going through all this, and I really need to learn how to do that.

I realised a while ago that I had been dieting for 30 years, pretty amazing for a 40 year old!

I have gained and lost hundreds of pounds in this time, recently I have simply got tired of hating my body into submission, of believing that when I am a size 12 ,life will be perfect(I have been a size 12 and it wasn't) so I have stopped , simply gone cold turkey on the denial and self loathing.

The relief. I can eat whatever I want, and you know what I don't stuff myself ,food seems to be losing its power, and have lost weight ,I am interested to see what weight I end up at what is my natural weight, I actually don't know. At each weight I am me, I am entitled to feel good , dress in what I want to. I enjoy sport and am back to it, not as a calorie burning exercise, but because I enjoy it.

It has freed up so much of my mind, and my heart if feels fantastic

I think it's important to educate children in nutrition and benefits of exercise. How these relate to weight and how weight relates to ill health (both very underweight or overweight).
I think harder things to deal with are things that can not be changed. Be it baldness, ginger, deformity, amputation, etc. these are things I don't judge but as a society they mocked or avoided. Instilling confidence in these cases are harder and take more of a process.

I worry about this too. But a funny thing happened the other day. My husband and I were in bed....I looked down and noticed mt wibbly tummy and just thought " if he doesnt like it he can go jump".
The fact is that it us me projecting my fears on to him. Thinkibg or assuming that he hates my body.
something just clicked. He was in bed with me so he must like my body so I should li k e it too.
and if he doesn't like it....too bad.

Find this interesting. Have two boys and one girl. The boys are talking about being fat vs having a six pack. I'm astonished as they are not teenagers yet.
I've always been little but with curves, though still had massive food issues when younger. Now I do work on being happy in my own skin, and mostly am. Do not buy magazines or watch much telly. I look around at other people and find most shapes and sizes are lovely, and use that to be positive about myself too.
My gran who's 86 has dieted her whole life. Never gave her any joy and my thought is that life is too short to hate oneself. It may sound a bit hippy, but various events in my life made that very clear. You get one go, brilliant luck actually. Enjoy.

Oh and hi Sulis. Used to love the FlamingoBingo nickname

I don't have DDs but I was one. I never remember my mum on a diet and she never mentioned body shape/image/size/eating habits etc to me at all and only very little about 'feminine grooming' (mainly at my prompting) . I think that really helped my body image into my early twenties even into my thirties. As did doing sport. Although neither of my parents pushed me that way. Less talking about what you look like is more helpful perhaps?

But eventually the relentlessness of the messages did get through (and an abusive boyfriend) . Although I feel better equipped to deal with it now. Also feminism helped me see the patterns and how society pushes you down certain routes. Really useful tool, even if it is still difficult to counteract.

I do know exactly what you mean sulis and the problem of course is that we are often operating sort of half aware like the things we say just pop out thoughtlessly and we don't even notice we're doing it.

So I think I don't give cues around low self esteem BUT maybe I am and I can't notice it because it's me IYSWIM. Like often people say stuff and if you ask them about it, it's clear they don't even remember saying it and if you ask why they look confused as it's not something they thought they would say.

Don't know if that makes sense!

There is a complex interaction of things here including family socialisation peers media and of course personality of the child.

I suspect there is something else that I get self esteem from that if it were taken or lost I'd struggle. Work maybe. Most people have something though right? Just that looks are so transitory if you have them in the first place and the pressure is too much not to mention expense and encouragement to constantly obsess and find yourself lacking.

I do a lot of the same as Seven. DD is 4 and sometimes she puts on a hair band or a necklace and says 'I look beautiful /pretty', I always reply you're always beautiful. First couple of times this caused an argument but she seems to accept it now! She also puts jewellery on me and says she's making me beautiful and I say the same about myself.

If she says I Mummy has a big Bum I say yes it's bigger than yours because I'm a grown up or 'isn't it lovely' that sort of thing.

Since she was a baby I've tried not to say pretty very much but say strong, brave etc.

lol

nice try

I particularly liked "repulsive and diseased"

I think if you want to get a rise you need to be a little more subtle

Fat is unattractive whether it's excessively padding out a man or woman. No child benefits from being overfed and under exercised no matter how many meaningless platitudes you instill in them to try and convince them that fat is good. It's not and I feel so sad for waddling children/teenagers, they're too young to be so repulsive and diseased.

I think if girls are raised to be strong, fit and healthy they're at an advantage. I encourage lots of physical activity and when she's old enough I'll be encouraging her to participate in as much team sport as possible as it toughens girls up, improves their social skills and gives them confidence and an identity that isn't wrapped up in a sexualised appearance.

I will never tolerate the lifestyle that results in fatness along with a lot of other things which are unacceptable. Children don't develop self esteem from their parents filling their head with lies,wishful thinking and delusions, once they realise that's not the reality they'll resent you and never trust you again. They gain esteem from their achievements, self respect and successful interaction with others.

As for the DDs, DD1(16) takes peer pressure with a pinch of salt. She conforms with societies norms as far as it suits her.

DD2(13) I worry about more, but it's hard to tell if she does fashion etc. to conform or because she enjoys and is good at it.

Watching this as interesting. Hi FB ages since have seen you around.

God that's a whopper post!

Also

Although we are trying to lose weight we are not on a "diet" just trying to eat a bit less and watch the sugary drinks and be a bit more active it is working well but we don't talk about it IYSWIM the kids aren't hearing shall I have a yoghurt or one bit of choc I have 3 points left to spend where's the slimfast nono I'm low-carbing this week etc all the obsessive stuff which is very unhealthy but women and girls are pushed into doing almost as a standard way of life and universal ongoing thing and permanent topic of conversation.

Not trying to sound smug here as I'm not, just trying to answer teh question in the op honestly and I am 5'3 and nearly 11 stone so nothing to write home about there!

Good links.
I'm a blobby size 16 and I have no hang ups about wearing a bathing costume, because I love swimming far too much to give a fuck.

I do avoid photo's, but I always have. I just look silly in them. Nothing to do with age, I've always looked daft in photos.

Fortunately my wedding ones are OK, but most are awful. DD1 has to be caught in an unguarded moment too, while DD2 just poses perfectly.

hello flamingo how nice to see you! I have been on here for yonks in many guises so not sure which one you'd know but Hello!!!!

This is a very interesting subject. I am pretty comfortable in my own skin and always have been, I have been trying to work out why that is as I realise more and more as I get older how totally unusual this is. Even now when I am bigger I seem to be much more comfortable than others. It's a bit baffling.

On kids, I have 2 DDs and they are both in primary school, infants. So I don't know yet whether the things I do will lead to them having a decent body image or not.

Anyway. I:

Don't read magazines or buy papers so there are not unattainable images all over the place - on the TV we all get it obviously but it's usually children's channels which aren't so bad! I suspect this is good for all of us, me included. They have shown that looking at perfect images of women makes women feel crap I think? Also the whole "omg woman has slight blemish on armpit" crap surely just leads to paranoia

Wander around naked a lot but that's maybe not for everyone! I have a tubbyish standard 40 year old body and so I guess they see me being comfortable

I don't make comments about bits I don't like. DH and I are trying to lose weight at the moment so they know we weigh ourselves I have explained it's better not to be overweight for health reasons and have pointed out that we both have wobbly tummys which is fat and it'd mean we are healthier if we are slimmer

I don't dress them up like dollys and try to avoid focusing on their looks (although I do tell them they are beautiful pretty etc as you don't want to avoid it completely for many reasons and anyway it's pretty impossible to stop it slipping out ingrained as it is as a standard comment to girls, I find myself saying it more than I'd like)

DH has quite unhealthy relationship with food "treats" "being good" etc all the diet tropes. I have told him to pack it in as much as he can as it is not good for the girls. We tell them about nutrition and balance and savoury before sweet and such and they seem to have a pretty good idea so far they eat when they're hungry and stop when they're full and have been known to choose cheese or fruit over sweets from time to time so that all seems good

I kind of feel like we're doing OK but only time will tell I think and peer pressure social pressure is so strong what you do at home can only go so far.

I will try and work out why I am so comfy with myself I talk to people / friends and know I am unusual and it'd be interesting to know why maybe pass it on

No idea but watching as I don't want my dds growing up hating themselves like I did

Sorry, I didn't mean to suggest that a bit of fat was unhealthy; I think you make a good point. One can 'big' and healthy and fit at the same time. The slope into obesity is a slippery one full of tasty things though...

Oh lord, the link. I kid you not, they were sharing a packet of crisps.