Female body hair.

No DH doesn't have other men or his sexual partner (me) telling him if he should or shouldn't shave his body. He does feel pressure to shave his face and cut his very wild hair.

But, DH is 50 and belongs to a generation and, as a computer scientist, a peer group who don't care about their appearance much if at all.

The younger men in your average swimming pool clearly do and it seems to me that they care to an extent that's begining to exceed what's healthy.

I have DDs not DSs and it doesn't bode well for them either if the whole of society joins in this madness.

"Does he have other men telling him that, if he doesn't shave, trim his eyebrows and ear hair that he is dirty, lazy and smelly?"

I have no idea. I do know that he work in a profession that would take a grim view if her turned up for work unshaven and wooly eyebrows.

When I see a woman with hairy legs and armpits, or a man with a furry back or hairy nostrils or ears, then I think that they have generally unsavoury personal habits. I imagine that they probably don't floss their teeth, clean their nails properly and have slovenly homes.
For me it is not a feminist thing at all. Just a self-care and cleanliness thing.
I am not saying that this is right at all. But it's my instinctual reaction.

My OH shaves, cuts his hair short, his barber trims his eyebrows and even ear hair when he visits. None of that is sexist.

Does he have other men telling him that, if he doesn't shave, trim his eyebrows and ear hair that he is dirty, lazy and smelly? Does he have women telling him that they won't have sex with him if he doesn't remove all his body hair? Would he be publicly derided if he didn't shave his legs? Would his sexuality be called into question if he grew his hair long? No?

Of course female body hair is tied up with sexism. Women are expected to conform with whatever 'look' presently suits male gaze. Women then go on to police other women who don't conform.

Also this is becoming less and less of a women only issue.

Very, very few young men have body hair either. They may have hairy legs and pits, but the number with obviously waxed chests and backs is staggering.

My very hairy DH is often the only furry person in the pool or water park que. It's getting to the point where, I think, even he feels faintly uncomfortable. Even though he'd never admit it.

It's time the whole of society took a step back and thought about the amount of time and money we are spending on trying to conform to an impossible ideal and the effect never being perfect has on peoples self esteem.

Why do either sex modify body hair?

My OH shaves, cuts his hair short, his barber trims his eyebrows and even ear hair when he visits. None of that is sexist.

The most amazing thing about that Mirror article is that the writer makes out the celebs "forgot" rather than decided.

Maybe but these days women do things because they choose to. Maybe this one was one way but is now another? If language can change over time why can't anything else? You're saying it's a have to choice and I'm suggesting it's actually no longer that simple.

I don't shave/wax/remove hair except for one whisker on my upper lip and one on my neck. I also consider myself a feminist.

However, I don't remove hair due feminist ideals but because of a chronic skin condition that is made worse if I wax/sugar/pluck. Shaving doesn't cause as extreme a reaction but it's still not great. So I don't bother.

My reaction to how myself and others view my hairiness IS tied in with feminism though. Most of the time I am oblivious to people's reactions - I wear vest tops with shorts/skirts and spend a good proportion of my time on the beach in a cossie - so my pit muffs and furry legs are 'flaunted'.

However, there are days when I feel a bit sad that I can't 'conform' to the norms of society easily and then become angry with myself that I feel that way.

I had to really enlarge some of the pictures of 'hirsute celebs' to even see half of the underarm hair

There's nothing silly about taking umbrage at an expectation that women will spend excessive amounts of time ensuring that they look sufficiently ornamental.

Didn't the ancient Egyptians used to remove body hair (mostly for louse control)? I think it goes back quite a few centuries for that reason.

I remember reading some badly-written erotica (which also wasn't very erotic) published in the 1920s, and they all got a bit excited about soaping each others' parts up and shaving everything. The leg-crossing bit for me, where I was thinking, "nonononono, no one's ever doing that to me," was the bit where they mentioned the cut-throat razor.

So if you are going to do it, be grateful for tje invention of safety razors.

What itsbetter said

It is all intertwined though. Because women are expected to look and act a certain way and that includes looking feminine it impacts on their employment. Women spend so much time and money everyday on their looks and even more time worrying about their looks that holds them back. All feminist issues are part and parcel.

Fuck me. Was that article written by a 13 year old??? 'Inner skank'? Really? stop the world, I want to get off.

Another thought, how far back does hair removal go? I think of it as a 1960's thing. But that might be just decent razors. Waxing must be older. Sugaring older. You used to get like sandpaper mitts in boots. Where did it start?

Off to google. Waiting for kids to sleep so I can watch scandal....

Fat is a feminist issue though. There's a whole book on that

But it is conditioning because of the lack of images of women with body hair in mainstream media and the revulsion when someone groomed has made the dreadful faux pas of neglecting their armpit hair.

although I suspect madonna has an armpit merkin

I don't care either. Shave don't shave. No hair off me so to speak. I'm not going to jump off the bus screaming am I? I'd barely give you a glance in RL. But sitting on sofa I can't say I like body hair. And I think a lot of people do think it's normal to be hair free on legs/underarms nowadays. I think this is a 'thing' that has moved from being a new thing sociologically speaking to a normal thing.

Regarding feminism with so many fights with so many issues that this one is feted as sort of a bar I find a bit silly. It turns into a method to kick you further "Ach, one of them" eye rolling by women and men. Or better. " not a serious feminist then eh?!" Wax don't wax really not ultimately interested but don't pretend it makes you a better feminist . It just makes me a non hairy legged one and you a hairy legged one.

I shave exactly what I want to shave. To what I think looks nice, and to how I feel comfortable. I do not shave because of how a man wants me to look, and I couldn't give two hoots what other women do.
Each to their own? Isn't that what it should all be about?

I am lucky in that I don't have very hairy legs, and even if I haven't shaved for months (which sometimes I don't), it's not very obvious. As it is, it's about a month since I last did them, and there are some hairs about 1cm long, but I have to look quite hard to see them, so I don't reckon anyone else would notice. (Actually, I don't shave at all - when I do bother, I use wax.)

I do wonder if I might not feel quite so blase about it and would find it harder to ignore the pressure if the hairs were darker and thicker. I don't know - I don't wear make-up, so maybe I wouldn't care. As it is, I don't have to care. And I don't do my armpits that often, because it was causing too much damage to the skin. I do smell a bit today, but I think that's more to do with having spent a hot day in a stuffy office, rather than whether they're shaved or not.

I don't tend to notice other women's legs, though I did take a look a while back when I was at the pool, following a similar conversation. Some people do, some people don't, as far as I can tell. Doesn't make any difference to their swimming ability or anything, as we are not quite at world record-breaking speeds, because swimmers at that level do remove nearly all body hair, because it can make that tiny bit of difference. Talking of which, I once worked with someone who did a lot of cycling, and he shaved his legs, so if he came off his bike, the hairs don't catch on the road. He only shaved up to the bottom of his cycling shorts, though, which rather gave the effect of looking like he was wearing hairy shorts when the cycling shorts were off... So I think if you are going to shave, it's better to go from joint to joint, rather than stop half way up a limb.

But I think all the pressure does make some people feel very self-conscious about it, and it can affect their confidence, and because of that, it is a feminist issue, whatever I may feel about it personally. And because it's not really noticeable when I don't shave, I think it would be unfair of me to tell someone else not to shave.

I don't much care what others do, but I had so much body hair I would not be able to see my body for it, so I have been waxing so long I have destroyed many of my hair follicles. Growing up in a hot climate, too, I found it unbearably hot and uncomfortable.

I prefer how I look without body hair.

I also prefer men with little body hair.

I shave. It's mainly for comfort, to me it feels nicer...and I sweat a lot. I don't care less what other women do though.

It looks unkempt. This'll be a very boring thread if we all agree. That's why I used fat as a comparison. That's also illogical but gets used in same ways. I just don't get why this one riles people. Today it is normal. Might not have been 30yrs ago but it is now.

Yes, because being judged on how we look and whether we conform to stereotypical norms is just nothing really, isn't it? It doesn't inform men's contempt at all, does it?

I'm glad it's normal for you to think that I am dirty, smelly and lazy. Way to go!