New campaign to allow partners to stay on maternity wards.

MissBattleaxe - then if there's only 1 post-natal ward then partners can't stay. I know that given the choice of hospitals which one I would go to though.

Like I said - I escaped fast, but I found it all pretty noisy, whether visitors were there or not - luckily I was exhausted :)

On the childrens ward this was dealt with very well - noisy visitors were shushed, and asked to leave if they didn't. This should happen.

Petula - I disagree about the main reason being to go and ask for help. Even with my perfect first hospital, DP's main purpose was to listen to what was being said and provide a checking system - I was in pain, exhausted, woozy - I was not in any state to pay attention to what I had to do next or what I should do with the baby, or what I should watch for, or to ask intelligent questions about my options. DP was also tired, but at least he had had some sleep previously and wasn't in pain.

Just like taking your union rep into an important meeting, or a trusted person into a medical appointment he was my second pair of ears at a vital and vulnerable time. I don't know what the solution to that is for women without birthing partners - but I don't also think that just because some women are alone that we should all do without support.

That's the point I was trying to make, Petula

Would I have been left without care because I had no partner there to give it?
Giving better all round care and attention is the key.

i have thought of another real concern (apologies if this point has already been made).

a number of women have said they would have loved their partner to be there partly to help get the attention of hcps who were understaffed/unavailable for some reason. let's face it, there are some things that the partners could do to assist (making supportive comments, helping to lift the baby where the mother can't without difficulty etc), but many things where they really can't (breastfeeding advice, concerns and queries, when something has gone wrong and medical attention is needed)

for the latter situation, those with partners staying on the ward can go and seek the hcps. given that as mentioned above there will be plenty of women who can't have a partner in attendance, what will happen to them? if there is a lack of attention from hcps due to understaffing or poor care, this won't change, and they will be at an enormous disadvantage compared to those with a partner with the physical and emotional capability to seek and insist on help

the whole premise is arsewise. it's the poor care and understaffing that needs to be tackled

But Chunky- what if the only hospital available to them has a loads of Dads staying overnight and its not the patients' choice? It wouldn't be fair.

I found visiting hours very stressful and noisy and all 4 of us mothers on the ward conked out asleep afterwards as soon as they had gone. Imagine that all night. Horrible.

Yes, as a second time mother I coped - I would have coped better had DP been there (there was a lot of bullying). I coped because I'd already had a baby, and knew what I was doing, and had an inkling of what would happen if (when) it all hit the fan.

A solution then, that helps some women at least - my hospital had 2 post natal rooms - 1 was c-section/high-needs, 2 were standard. Let women choose. Sure sometimes choices will be forced (as they are no if you don't meet criteria - I wasn't allowed to even pay for a private room as I was post-c-section).

You don't need any more than a chair (which they have anyway, even in my crappy hospital, so I had somewhere to sit and feed). If most women won't have a partner with them for whatever reason then out of the 4 people in my room you'd only have 1 or 2 partners in the room anyhow.

Fine though, don't make it a right, let hospitals choose for themselves. Again in the children's ward there were official visiting hours, rules for numbers of visitors, but they weren't enforced unless someone was being a nuisance. Do that in the post-natal.

Let the market decide - let people choose if they want to be on a ward/in a hospital that lets partners stay or not.

I'm dead against the idea. Yes it would have been nice to have had my DH stay over but only if in a private room.

On a ward it would have been a firm and resounding and passionate NO as it would have meant a bay for four patients would have had eight people staying in it and therefore no privacy for me or for the other women on it.

It's not about men being dangerous, it's about needing to feel comfortable whilst you get boobs out of tell the midwife your bowels aren't moving, or that your catheter is uncomfortable or that your bed is sodden with blood.

Do I want to do all that with three unknown non medical men in the room? No, no and no a million times.

It would be letting the desires of some women and men trump the rights of others. The right to recover in peace and privacy, which is an absolute right that must be protected at all costs.

They won't be supporting it because so many people said no. They did seem open to the idea at first.

Sorry, I am still bitter that the postnatal campaign went nowhere. It infuriates me that women are so neglected in this area.

MN have said they won't be supporting this.

chunky have you read the other thread, some really good posts about why people would feel really uncomfortable. Several form midwives.

Quartber what do you mean what do I think they would do? I don't think they would have done anything, they wouldnt have been able to help thats for sure.

I didnt really want to be on all fours with everything on display in front of anyone, and no especially not of lots of non medical men. Im sure the majority of patients husbands wouldnt have wanted to see it either.

Actually I've just remembered something that's making me angry.

A couple years ago, many of us on here begged MN to have a campaign for better postnatal care. There were some very long threads at the time about how awful it was for so many women and we thought MN could put a big push into this.

Well they didn't. Shockingly, I think.

So now why the interest in a campaign to allow men on the wards???

Why not a campaign for better postnatal care? Hmm...

Sod that. National health care can do this, and do it well, because I've experienced it, and even with perfect care my partner was needed (by me)

If a woman had just had major surgery and came on here saying that her DP expected to swan off home while she stayed up and looked after a baby (after barely sleeping for a week before, and poorly sleeping for months before that) he'd be quite rightly vilified for not playing his part.

If people are going to a consultant the advice is often to take an advocate. If going to babycare classes, you'd expect the partner to go along.

A small study shows the majority preferred it, anecdotally I preferred it, the reasons against are:

Violence/abuse - which happens during the day too, and hospitals - particularly post-natal wards already have policies to deal with it.

I don't want a man seeing me - well, I don't want women seeing me either - the ward is the problem, not the men then.

The care should just be better - yes, it should, but the partner isn't just there for that.

No, you shouldn't be put in the position of policing - again, that should be the nurses, again the partners help some, and hinder others - but the service is the problem, not the partners.

And yes, he did leap up to my every need, so that I wasn't ringing the bell to get help instead, or trying to get to the toilet/crying baby whilst still waiting for the epidural to wear off and falling, or to find out how on earth I go about getting food at some point, or remembering to ask about pain med prescriptions at discharge since no-one else had remembered, or wound care advise which no-one had offered when I was still rather under the weather (to put it mildly) having just had a baby. This meant that the breast-feeding help, the midwives, the bloody mattress turners, could all go and help the people who needed it, rather than me who'd brought her own.

I agree that the actual answer is better care and more midwives, but that seems like such a pipe dream at the moment

even if it was, so what? They are just as important as the mother, and their feelings just as valid

Sorry, but no, they aren't.

They aren't patients. My rights do trump theirs. Don't be silly. When men are walking around in dressing gowns with no pants on trying to keep 2 giant maternity pads between their knees so a clot the size of their fist doesn't land on the floor after pushing a 10 pound human out of their butt. Then yes their opinion will be just as valid.

This isn't a competition to see who had the worst birth or lost the most blood though, it's about everybody's right to feel comfortable and able to recuperate in hospital.
The majority of people in hospital are having a tough time and would probably welcome someone with them all the time but the reality at the moment is that it's just not possible.
Some knew who's had a traumatic birth doesn't trump the recently diagnosed terminally ill or a young person having a transplant (my ds is waiting for one) so eventually we wil end up having to provide double the facilities than we already struggle to provide.

The problem chunky is most women will not have a partner with them. Between single mothers and lesbians and women on their second third fourth child where dh is at home with the kids...

Most women will be there on their own feeling vulnerable by someone else husband

dreaming more females on the ward would not bother me, but I can see why it would be an issue for other people and I think it would lead to cries of "discrimination!" from men

Best keep to having proper care available

That Captured Womb article is drivel.

FFS

I couldn't support a MN Campaign for this, for the reasons already stated by pp's.

Minnie sorry to hear you had a shitty stay in hospital, though.

piss off and pay private

Charming. While I agree somewhat with the sentiment of paying private or having a homebirth if you want your OH staying overnight, you could have worded it more nicely. I'm not exactly rolling in the dough, so will have to save up for a long time as I won't be able to have my first choice of homebirth due to being more likely to hemorrhage and needing monitoring. It's not as easy as 'piss off and pay private' for some people.

Is the OP seriously suggesting men on a maternity ward are going to become dangerous?

Are you seriously suggesting that is never the case? Because if you are it will make it really easy to totally disregard any of your future posts.

You want DP staying, piss off and pay private. NHS must remain benefit for all.

Exactly this.

Done this twice.

I would have liked a ward bathroom that worked.
Cleaners that cleaned.
Nurses that knew how to breast feed.
Decent visiting hours to allow new fathers to adequately visit, support and return home. Not standard hospital hours.
Staff that communicated properly to me about my treatment.
Access to a counsellor immediately to discuss my emcs first time. Or visit by a pal.
Lights that turned off at night.
Photocopy of my notes as I left.
Discounted parking for first 24-48hrs
Bounty removed.

At no point did I wish my dh to stay overnight and I wouldn't have been happy about staying strangers. You want DP staying, piss off and pay private. NHS must remain benefit for all.

I think it's a bit harsh to say 'self-absorbed' -- what's the section rate in the UK, 25%? In addition to non-CS births that are traumatic, lots of blood loss, etc. So that's a lot of women with medical needs who need extra support that they're currently not getting.

By all means, object to the proposal, but I wouldn't automatically assume the people for it have bad intentions or are selfish or whatever -- I think for many people, it's just being desperate to help and perhaps not thinking through all the potential problems.