New campaign to allow partners to stay on maternity wards.

Needs, hope you don't mind but I have reported your post to MNHQ to see if they can make sure Birthrights see it

I posted this on the other thread, but Needs' posts underline how important these issues are to the protection of women from domestic violence and how central that concern is to feminism.

Another important consideration is educating medical professionals about the links between pregnancy and domestic violence and the importance of affording pregnant women some time with medical staff without the presence of the partner. The private room option does address the issue of privacy, but it does not address the issue of whether there is abuse in the relationship.

Needs, that's heartbreaking

Is the OP seriously suggesting men on a maternity ward are going to become dangerous?

You are welcome to come to work with me next week.i have many clients who are willing to meet people and talk about their experiences it may take some time.

I can introduce you to loads of women who had botched attempts to flee violence and rape because they couldn't disclose abuse due to the current visiting hours on the PN ward not being enforced.

Or several who couldn't even sleep in their own hospital bed due to a partner forcing them out of it or the ones who couldn't eat due to food being taken from them

At least 10 with babies under a year old who were sexually assaulted or raped on a PN ward

More than 25 who were physically assaulted on a PN ward

Many who reported their ex/partners verbally abusing or threatening other patients,staff and visitors

Or one who had to have a security guard posted by her bed because she happened to give birth the same day as her ex's girlfriend

Many who were bullied into leaving when they had undeclared (to HCP) complications, at least 2 of those you can't meet because they are dead.

Or a woman whose extensive work to repair the results of FGM was effectively undone by her husband less that 12 hours after birth.

The protection of women from domestic abuse and violence and the protection of safe environments for women's health will always be a feminist issue

Sorry to hear of your experience thecageisfull
Completely agree about the "fucking disgrace" bit regarding maternity care
(Though obviously some HCP's give good care and some women manage to have a good experience of birth and post-natal care. Far too few though)

I can't believe it would ever happen - not on a regular post-natal ward with several women staying. I just can't imagine all their fella's camped out next to them, even though I could strongly have done with more support and company after having dd, and felt quite abandoned with my new baby really. With dc2 (ds) I went home the same day - much better

Oh my goodness, thecageisfull that is just horrific. Did you manage to complain afterwards at all? They should have called security to get him removed, or the bloody police if necessary.

I've had the experience of partners staying overnight and it was horrific. It wasn't an official policy but the ward was too understaffed to kick them out. I was in labour and for around 2-3 hours I had a man coming into my 'area' behind my curtains and telling me to shut the fuck up etc. I was on all fours with only a t-shirt on part of this time. I was alone as I don't know anyone with a sense of entitlement large enough to stay beyond visiting times and I had another child at home. He and a teenage boy had a physical fight as the teenager wanted him to shut the fuck up too. I tried to find a midwife when I passed a lot of blood into the toilet. I couldn't find one but I was called a fucking dirty bitch for not flushing the toilet (I thought the MV may have needed to see). It wasn't another patient who wanted to use the patient toilet, it was twat face following me about.

Eventually I was moved to the labour ward to deliver but I was 10cm when I got down there. I was bloody lucky not to have to push dd out with him standing at the bottom of my bed.

So, it's a no from me. I would support a campaign for better care for women but I don't think there is much political incentive. Babies will continue to be born regardless of conditions, no waiting lists or targets to worry about. Babies die. Mothers die. It's called a 'tragedy' instead of a 'fucking disgrace'.

Ok, done it!

BillnTed, no I think it could be linked to the main MN thread although the stupid MRA posted a bit upthread, but never mind

It's a no from me. Yes, when I had dc1 in hospital I hated DP being sent home at 4am when I got moved down to the postnatal ward & couldn't wait for him to come back again. If there was a single room system I would be happy for partners to stay over. But as I shuffled down the ward trailing blood & fainting, I am so glad the only people there were a) HCP and b) other women who had just been through the same thing & were equally in pain, shock & incapacitated! It was bad enough during the days when all the families, churches & randoms showed up but at least they went home for 12 hrs.

I had dc2 at home.

I don't mind you linking it. If I wanted it kept secret I wouldn't post on the internet. Go ahead.

It puts women under pressure to bring fathers in, even if they know the father is a violent, dangerous to themselves and others (as women have described their own ex partners on the other thread) because organisations like birthright are setting it up as the 'norm.'

This is a really good point. This has already happened with the birth itself, where having the father there has become the norm to the point where someone can try to sue his ex for the right to attend, where it is accepted on TV that Jeremy Kyle can scream at a woman for refusing to allow her ex at the birth, or even threads on here where pregnant women would prefer a different birth partner but don't feel able to refuse the father his 'right' to be there. How many women will feel bullied or pressured into allowing the father overnight if this goes ahead?

its v v odd that a womans rights organisation wouldn't have checked what other womens rights organisations are doing in the area before making a proposal.
even to google feminism & childbirth would have been illuminating

Do people mind if I link this to the main thread, as Birthright are reading that one? Or could just flag this thread to Rowan who is liaising?

Squizita is saying everything I think, but in a much clearer way. Thank you Squizita- we should send you to the birthright people- you would say all the right things.

This is also a no from me. A hospital is for patients. The dad isn't a patient and will only take up room and time. More staff to care for the actual patients is the answer.

That said, I had my second at home to avoid the whole hospital thing and I would heartily recommend it if it's suitable for the mother.

Someone mentioned on one of these 2 threads the fact the website says feminist groups are 'silent' on the matter of birth rights.

I am sorely tempted to send these threads to Southall Black Sisters for their take on it. As Quangle says, it is likely to be women alone, women with limited English etc' who will get ignored when nice pushy partners are there... and women who have been victims of domestic/sexual abuse or FGM are going to be 'silenced' at the one time they could disclose.

But I wonder if Birthrights think silence is preferable to 'you got it wrong'?

Nice post dadwashere

On a very personal level (which I know is not the point) this would have been awful for me as a single parent giving birth. I relied on the professionalism of the staff to look after me and moving to a system where the squeaky wheel gets the most oil would be very damaging to all the rest of us without nice, articulate, pushy husbands to get attention for us. I'd be at the back of the queue with all the other single parents, women without good English, frightened women, women without any support etc etc, hiding behind the curtain and waiting for someone to come.

DadWasHere, sorry, I was irritated by birthrights wording and proposed solution, which coincided with your wording. I didn't mean to be rude or attack your actual point.

Almond, I think DadWas referred to the fact that most maternity wards have birth partner visiting hours 8-8 (for example) and "standard" hours for everyone else.

Yes, that.

I think all women should have better maternity care, which isn't achieved by your DH unless he's planning on a long term role of roaming maternity wards catching the babies of new mothers in general

This, precisely.

Our default is to care about "our own". Which is lovely for our partner/family but not for others. In this case we need to take a step back and (1) separate the lack of staffing from the question: it is a problem, but visitors doing the work are not the solution and (b) understand that the very instinct that makes dads helpful to their wives can make them a problem to all the other mums because to them, those other mum's are nothing, invisible. His wife and PFB are the most deserving in his eyes. Particularly in the immediate post-birth moments. If there was one cup for water left, or a spare chair, or whatever, a rare husband indeed husband is going to ask around the ward to find out if there's anyone thirstier or with an older visitor than him before nabbing it for HIS wife and PFB.
He is caring.
But he is not an objective, caring professional.
He is getting in the way
A parent's instinct (both genders) is to fight tooth and nail for their PFB...which leads to more problems than solutions if it's a shared ward.

I'm not advocating my DP being there all night. Have had three babies and survived.

I think if everyone had private rooms it would be quite nice - your partner or mother or friend

first, wards are staffed by women and men I had several male drs and male surgeon, had a cervical sweep by male drs, vaginal exam by male drs.

Unless your husband is a nurse, doctor or midwife I don't want any chance of him seeing my breasts or bleeding vagina, thanks very much.
The 'but menz are there working' thing is offensive to male HCPs.
Tell you what, there are male primary school teachers so let's just let loads of random men wander round schools if they have school aged kids eh?
Random fathers aren't CRB checked, often don't know how to behave in a hospital ward environment (not out of meanness but because it's new and they're stressed/tired) and have one woman and one they think deserves all the care: theirs. And that's just the natural instincts of a loving non HCP of either gender, not drunk/violent ones.
It is not appropriate.
"The path to hell is paved with good intentions" ... what if husbands suddenly became aware that the 5 minutes a pushy dad spent talking to a nurse before realising his wife's need was OK to wait was 5 minutes of agony for a woman waiting for her painkillers (in the nurse's hand as she was waylaid)? He would be a nice guy doing right by his wife... but clearly in the wrong place and time.