New campaign to allow partners to stay on maternity wards.

ChunkyPickle, It may not be limited to men, but it is men who would have the right to stay overnight if this campaign succeeds. Why should I be put in a position of having to police the behaviour of these men when I am feeling poorly and vulnerable? I don't know how they will react to me reporting them.

I completely agree with whatdoesittake. I lost a litre and a half of blood during labour, and was really upset and affected by the whole thing. A couple of hours later, my OH was asked to go home. I felt like I really needed him- he is my rock. I don't think a homebirth next time is an option, as my chance of hemorrhaging is higher than normal.

With regards to it being a feminist issue, I don't really have an image in my head of it being for the men's benefit (even if it was, so what? They are just as important as the mother, and their feelings just as valid) . I think a lot of times (like in my case for instance) the OH staying would be primarily for the mum's benefit. I appreciate other people don't like men on the ward past a certain time but I think in exceptional cases, there should be a bit of give. I felt too weak to change my son's nappy and I felt bad asking the midwives to constantly jump to my aid. I know they are there to help, but they are hard pressed as it is. I felt like it was my man's job to support me, emotionally and physically. I was in tears all night. Our son had been born a few hours prior and I felt like the precious time together as a family had been taken away a bit. I felt so alone.

Would people object as much to a lesbian partner staying the night? I don't think what is between someone's legs comes into it on this occasion, sorry. But I do understand other people may not be comfortable with it for their own personal reasons, and that's cool with me. If I get pregnant again I may just save up for a private room because I don't want to be in a similar situation to last time. Given by the response on the other thread, having your partner behind the curtain with you, sitting on a chair overnight isn't going to be happening any time soon.

No, the solution is to understand it is a hospital not a hotel

I'm sure your DP did leap up and see to your every needregardless of what others needed.

That is why hospitals are staffed by HCPs not people who like you above all other women.

there were female visitors overnight on my antenatal ward - they did everything basgetti's room-mate's partners did - poor visitor behaviour is not limited to men!

The solution is getting the nurse in charge of the ward to tell them to belt up or get out (which she did) - of course it was hard for me to request that given my situation - my (impeccably behaved, and quiet) DP did that for me.

I think they should trial family support for patients on a male patient ward.

There is no way whatsoever that it is feminist to bring in family support for new mothers on the basis that hospital care isn't good enough. How does that help women who don't have family support? How does it help women who won't go to hospital at all if males are around?

The whole thing is utterly self absorbed. Essentially wanting to take resources away from women who've just given birth so some other woman can have extra support, regardless of medical neccessity.

The ward I was on simply didn't have enough space - if you put in a reclining chair (as they have on the children's wards), you'd cut the number of patient beds from 6 to 4. So then you'd need to spend precious NHS money building new wards (or even private rooms). I'd much sooner the finite pool of resources was spent on more midwives.

Can I ask: how would people feel if mums were allowed to have a female visitor overnight to help her?

I think the key thing is to get women more support, if partners are too controversial, what about female support?

I posted on the other thread, I was yesterday discharged from an ante natal ward where partners had very relaxed (seemingly non existent) visiting times.

I was in with hyperemesis, was very poorly, retching, on a drip and had to go backwards and forwards to the toilet and leave bedpans in there for my urine to be checked. Some of the time I couldn't access the toilet due to partners being in there even though it was clearly for patients only.

Another partner who had arrived with his wife early in the morning for induction decided to turn the bedside TV on full volume and not use the headphones, despite it being an inpatient ward with poorly women trying to sleep.

Another man kept walking in and out of the bay at 1am, past my bed, on his phone, being noisy. I couldn't relax or sleep and felt very uncomfortable.

The first night I was on the gynae side with proper visiting times and it was much better, before I was moved. I don't think all men are dangerous or bad, but the ones I encountered were thoughtless at best. There is a possibility I will require more admissions during this pregnancy and the thought of it makes me feel quite distressed due to this very issue.

It points to so many inequalities in postnatal care.

If you're in a MLU you get a private room, you can stay for hours after birth, your partner can stay (on a foldout bed even!) -- so in cases where there are few complications and less need for support, partners can stay.

But if you have a CS and end up on a postnatal ward and needing lots of practical (not just emotional) support then you're shit out of luck. How is that fair?

When I was in, the women next to me was left all night with just-born TWINS after an extremely traumatic birth. The midwives disappeared for hours, she was on her own with two tiny babies and just sobbing her heart out. Me and another woman who'd just had sections crawled out of bed to help her.

We would have been happy for her husband to stay but he was not allowed.

I am very torn because I understand all the objections but in the meantime women are really suffering on the wards.

And I agree with whatdoesittake, right now men are sent home for a nice sleep while women are up all night, often physically exhausted and/or post-surgical, caring for baby all on their own -- what kind of dynamic does that establish from the start?

So what about those of us who didn't have a partner to be there during labour?

The support and help wasn't second best for me, I wasn't left to my own devices because there was no man around.

The support and care came from staff.

Maybe the issue is that more women should be supported to give birth at home?

Have looked up the webpage of this Birthrights lot, and here is what they have to say about feminism and childbirth:
this!

Apparently feminists largely ignore childbirth and all we're interested in is supporting women to be career women just like men: "although arguably the equation of work with equality – a capitalist hijacking of oppression – unravels when children arrive" - as far as I can tell, the author thinks she is scoring a point against feminism by saying this, because, err, no feminist has ever said precisely this...

No, DP was there because I wanted him there - believe me, he wanted to leave (I cried when after nearly 24 hours with no food he suggested he went and found some)

Good for you if you were brave and strong and sailed through labour, but I didn't - either time - and he kept me going and helped me make the decisions I needed to make.

ah i missed that (there is a formatting error that makes it look like the feedback from the mothers is part of that from the fathers)

I snore like sawing wood, but men on maternity wards isn't about that really is it?

Why do they need to be there?

support is not a valid reason really, because a man will only be there as a support for his partner. He won't be able support to anyone else, or even the staff.

A man would only be on a maternity Ward (not talking children's/medical Ward) because he felt entitled to be there. . .

Ugh, sorry, I don't know where the spaces went! Those were quotes from page 56

That's interesting Petula - I see that it was generally a positive reponse.

There is some feedback from the mothers with partners who stayed:

‘I felt more able to relax knowing he was there’
• ‘Nice to know I have love and support at hand’
• ’It was a tough night. The moral support and help from my husband was great.’

And also support from the people without fathers who stayed, saying that they weren't disturbed at all.

I'm not normally all about the menz - but snoring? Really?

Plenty of pregnant and newly un-pregnant women snore (I know I did - especially when forced to lie on my back) - the babies snuffle, the nurses wander around, people drop things - I don't think 'men snore' is a particularly reasoned response!

this gives some details of a pilot undertaken in doncaster (see page 54). curiously, it reports feedback from the fathers who stayed, and from mothers whose partners did not stay. i can't see any report of feedback from the mothers whose partners stayed

Noise from overnight visitors on the children's ward (where they had nice, electric beds I noted) was dealt with sternly when DS1 was there for a week - DP and I alternated staying with him (it was required that a parent was there). If they can cope in the children's ward, and call security if there are issues, then I can't see why they wouldn't be able to cope with it on the post-natal.

Can you imagine all the men snoring in addition to babies crying? No one would be able to get any sleep at all.

More qualified overnight support on postnatal wards however is a campaign I would whole heartedly support.

I had my first (by emergency c-section) in Canada, where I had a room to myself in labour, and after. The maternity nurses and consultants were all excellent, attentive, helpful, listened to me and gave me choices, responded when I called, made sure I had the correct pain relief etc. and still, for the first little while I was so, SO glad my partner was with me (I cried when he had to leave to find food), as post-section I was still shaky on my legs, feeling a rather worn and overwhelmed. His support was indispensable, and that was in a wonderful (Canadian national health) hospital with awesome staff.

I had my second in the UK (another EMCS), where I was bullied by consultants, midwives, people spoke over me, didn't listen to me or read my notes, I don't know who in the room did my surgery as they didn't introduce themselves and no-one checked on me afterwards. I got out of there in less than than 24 hours because I didn't feel I was getting the care I needed anyway - DP's support would have been invaluable, but he couldn't be there because we had the older one, and because he wasn't allowed on the ward - if it had been my first baby I would have been absolutely in bits by the end of it (literally, given what they wanted to do to me) if I hadn't already had the previous good experience and so could cling onto my pre-thought out plans through the pain and bullying.

TBH I agree that partners on the wards is a quick-fix solution. I felt that the beds straight out of call the midwife (fun trying to sit up when you've just been sliced in two and have no-one to help), the showers with narrow doors, which you had to step up 8 inches to get into (carrying your catheter bag thing, trying not to disturb stitches), the midwives who don't answer alarms, check that you have medication, or that you know how to get some food are a problem.

If all that isn't going to be fixed (and I can't see that it will), then at least my partner being there means I have an advocate, someone who can go and get painkillers, help me to the toilet, hold the baby and help me out of bed when there is no-one else going to do that. He's there to listen when I'm spaced out from pain or painkillers and ask important questions that I hadn't thought of.

I understand the issue with women's only spaces, I understand that there is abuse, but I also know that I was a vulnerable person who needed someone to speak for me - and that is DP.

On a lighter note - the other patients and midwives were perfectly capable of disturbing me with loud calls, whooshing of curtains and pointless conversations - no-one needed a partner there to do that, and frankly, I'd prefer that no-one on the ward - male or female - got a view of me having my catheter taken out, but that would again be a problem with midwives not checking before whooshing curtains aside rather than the sexes/genders of the people sharing the ward.

Allowing male or female visitors to stay overnight is a ill thought out proposal. Visitors can often be quite a (noisy) nuisance on maternity wards during normal visiting hours. Having them stay overnight would be awful.

NO to male (or female) overnight visitors at the hospital from me.
-I usually tend to support mn campaigns--

I wouldnt feel comfortable if I was in a bay of 6. Especially when you're trying to breastfeed etc. I had an EMCS at 7pm and DP was then asked to leave at 10pm. Yeah it was horrible but I had a lot of help from the midwives.

1 week later I was back in hospital with sepsis and in a private room with bathroom. My DP was allowed to stay with me in my room as the staff were busy and he looked after DD. he didn't once leave the room in the night as he didn't want to make any of the other women uncomfortable.

No bloody way. Mat wards are about women and babies. Men can visit - that's all. If you want DH overnight get a private room.

Don't give it oxygen, don't let him make it all about him, please