Orange is the new black

I cried when they made up in the library.

Also Lego- tastee and pousseys relationship was such a lovely and delicate thing to watch. It was so believable and the mutual love and respect is possibly the most romantic non romantic thing I've ever seen.

It's not just the 'pretty ones' who get hot and heavy... And there's different storyline about the different kinds of relationships that people find themselves in during these extraordinary circumstances.

I think that sex would be rife in a minimum security prison. People are bored. People need support. People need a crutch for so many reasons.

I don't know from personal experience but I would assume that this is one of the most accurate portrayals of prison life and dynamics that we have ever had on programming.

A few people mention that they think there's too much sex and its gratuitous. I would argue that it's more likely than the well worn prison tropes that we have seen previously.

good king! lesbians got to watch something on tv that aroused them for once - i in no way begrudge them that given the constant barrage of heterosexual, and male centric heterosexual at that, sex scenes they're subjected to endlessly.

it's not wrong or bad to be turned on. it's the need to subjugate a woman, make her passive, lie about her sexuality and damage her in the process via turning men on that i find disturbing. not the concept of people being turned on.

i think it's a shame people weren't able to look deeper at these characters than the fact some of them had a lot of lesbian sex. women locked up for life or even a few years together developing bonds and dynamics which surprise surprise include a fair bit of sexual activity - the sex doesn't define them for me, i haven't internalised that therefore i don't see sex and stop looking at them.

True HoneyBadger and anyway I kind of brought it on myself by bringing up something I couldn't defend right as part of my argument...

Anyway my point isn't the sex, it's the centrality of sex when it comes to female characters. Like in Gardeners World. (or hang on... have I got that right....?)

Regarding the sexual scenes in the show, both of my lesbian friends said that they did find them at times a turn on.

The women are prisoners, most of the guards are men, if that's not enough for us to know our place, all of the men abuse their position with the women in their own special way. Nothing feminist about that.

The real Piper (the show is based on her book) says that prisons are 'overwhelmingly" staffed by men! The show is trying to portray her story, so if her story is that she came across more men wardens than female, I think it would have been wrong to change that, purely to make it 'more feminist'

Piper Kerman interview

the personal is political and all that

no one was insulting 'you' but questioning your perspective and examining it's potential roots.

feminism and all that innit?

you're a one monty

I think you are right about the diet we are fed, though. it is insidous

or, i misremembered it as it was so long ago? shouldn't have brought it up as it wasn't clear in my memory, and now the thread will take that turn.

i definitely am not ok watching rape and would watch loads of happy sex all day rather than that. just to make that clear. it's a totally different scenario one is horrible and upsetting and one is just overdone and used to characterise women in a way that is not done for men

that is my point. just that.

don't think there is much need to get personal

i think it says something that watching sexual violence was less shocking or disturbing for you than watching women getting each other off and being happy/humorous/casual about it.

seriously! that says something. you were watching something you haven't been conditioned to see as ok and found it 'too much'. yet watching violent sexual assaults was alright. it says something about the diet we are fed.

don't be stupid Monty, ok?

Honeybadger I may well be misremembering it, it was on ages ago. But I don't recall male characters being defined by sex in the way that women are. that's what gets on my wick, and why I was disappointed with Orange. I had heard it was really good and different and the first episode seemed to be the same old same old Women Gettin' It On. I mean that's hardly unusual on tv

yeah. i'm sorry but i really think you need to examine why it was so 'too much' and beyond the pale for you.

this was women with whole personalities having sex for sexual pleasure just as a 'thing' they did as part of their spectrum as a whole person. in most shows women are things cast purely to have sex with males frequently and truly are defined, and only have a role, because they are the girlfriend or wife. men have sex without it being all they're about or it being seen as belittling them.

perhaps it is a side of female sexuality that you don't identify with or feel comfortable with - which is fine - but that doesn't mean it doesn't represent women or was bad or 'too much'. if a show isn't for you then fine it's not, we all have different tastes but to be so 'eww'ish about female sexuality being portrayed in a pretty blunt and non romanticised fashion needs examining imho.

To me, they were. It was hugely over emphasised. I used to watch Oz, another very good prison drama. There wasn't as much long lingering sex in that afair. But then, it was a male prison.

but then 'too much' is subjective and if that's where I draw the line the show isn't for me.

but the characters in this aren't defined by sex and who they're having sex with.

why would you compare it an award winning male centric show

I suppose because in a male centric show the male characters don't get defined by sex as much. Sure they have sex, but it's a minor part of their personalities compared to pretty much any female character ever, who is defined in terms of her looks, her sexuality and who she is having sex with.

It's not much to do with 'comfort with sexuality' really, that sounds a bit like saying You're All Prudes! to me. Not trying to cause a row here just pointing out the 'echoes' of the statement.