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Original poster

How to Have a Feminist Wedding

69 replies

Thurlow · 30/06/2014 11:27

Did anyone see the Guardian article by the author of Everyday Sexism?

The article itself was really interesting, but the comments were more so. I can't entirely make up my mind how I feel. Personally I'm against marriage for me (as anyone who has come across me before on here probably well knows Blush) and agree with some comments such as marriage, with its trappings of romance and its history, have become the only way to guarantee legal rights to inheritance and protection etc. But then again, surely feminism means doing whatever the hell you want, and if you want a big white dress and a church wedding, why not? Surely not being able to do what you want would be anti-feminist?

I also found a lot of the author's comments about the wedding industry - the attitude of bridal shops and the like - very telling, the assumption that it will be a woman's planning, a woman's decision, a woman wanting to look her best and all that.

Marriage is a partnership, pure and simple - but how easy is it really to escape from all the quite inherently sexist history and assumptions involved in a wedding?

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GrendelsMinim · 06/07/2014 20:47

I think that DH and I did what we wanted to, but that quite a lot of what I wanted was shaped by me being a feminist/green/religious type. So you could say it was a feminist wedding, although I expect there was probably a lot that was shaped by broader cultural expectations.

In fact (and I only admit this on the Internet), my initial reply to DH's proposal was a speech about marriage not being an upgrading of our existing relationship, and the title of 'Mrs' not being an upgrading of 'Ms'. This was a bit incongruous given that he was proposing on a tropical beach at sunset with a large diamond ring and a hidden bottle of champagne...

catherinemm · 04/07/2014 23:21

I like to think I had a feminist wedding but considering a kelot the white dress and the church I probably didn't really but ways it did go towards feminism were:

  • Mum gave me away - though this was an easy decision as my dad couldn't do it, he was the vicar
  • My dad is rather irreligious vicar who left full time vicar ring as he couldnt handle the church's continued homophobia & he made quite a few feminist and pro gay comments which was nice
  • my sister did speech as well as the best man, and far funnier it was too! I didnt do one though which I kinda regret
  • my dad didn't do a speech, but he had talked enough during the service anyway!
  • I have kept my surname. This seemed the obvious thing for me to do. I am so surprised so many of my feminist friends changed theirs
SolidGoldBrass · 04/07/2014 22:55

Interesting thread. I have never been married and never will marry, but I like weddings and have trained as a BHA wedding celebrant. I'm very much in favour of people having the ceremonies they want (whether that's for weddings or funerals) and it seems to me that the heart of a wedding is - or should be - that people want to make a formal, public commitment to one another and have a party to celebrate. Strip it down to that and what's not to like?

nameequality · 04/07/2014 19:46

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28158341

nameequality · 04/07/2014 19:46

Little update on #MothersOnMarriageCerts >http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28158341

KristinaM · 03/07/2014 11:51

This is such a fascinating thread -like others, we didn't set out to have a feminist wedding, we just did things that felt right to us

No engagement ring
No proposal
No veil
No one was " given away "
No one changed their name
No speeches
We both made the same vows /declaration
We had male and female supporters ( no brides maids or best men )
We paid for it ourselves

We had just the usual amount of negative comments, so I'm guessing we didn't rock the patriarchy too much

Apparently the most radical thing I did was Wear A Dress With Sleeves

This caused great consternation , apparently your wedding isn't legal if you don't have your shoulders and cleavage on display and norks encased in a corset Hmm

ChickenFajitasAndNachos · 02/07/2014 11:03

My DH and I were 100% happy with our wedding choices and 20 years on still are perhaps without the 3am DH sliding down the wall drunk bit. I didn't really over think things and just chose things that felt right. My DM said you can't do this or you must do that a couple of times but I thought well actually I can. I think because we paid for the wedding with our own savings it can be easier to break away from some traditions if they don't make you feel comfortable.

angeltulips · 02/07/2014 09:55

FYI the white dress doesn't have a history of symbolising virginity - it symbolises wealth! The idea was that white dresses got dirty pretty quickly so to be able to afford a frivolous dress that could only be worn was a sign of, well, bling basically. Only came in with queen vic - before that brides wore dark colours like red. So you can happily wear a white dress unless you're a socialist in which case you shouldn't be having a consumer-tastic wedding anyway

BillnTedsMostFeministAdventure · 02/07/2014 07:35

"but just because you choose to do something and you are a feminist, that choice doesn't automatically become a feminist choice"

Yup. I had a veil, my dad walked me down the aisle, I didn't give a speech although DH did.

Tbh, didn't think that much about most of it but was quite happy with the result, I don't think I made feminist choices per se but I acknowledge that and am fine with it. A Green Party supporter might buy ready meals in disposable trays now and then - that's not a green choice but it doesn't mean they aren't a Green Party supporter!

iK8 · 01/07/2014 22:51

I don't think I've actually read that attitude on the thread Thurlow it seems to me that most of the posts are along the lines of people doing what they wanted at their wedding/when they got married and some are more or less feminist in nature. I haven't seen anyone say "feminists should" or "feminists will" but logically one would expect someone who consciously identifies as a feminist to be more predisposed to make a "feminist" choice.

What I do find a bit odd is someone who publicly identifies as a feminist choosing to trade upon her feminist credentials to write a rather self indulgent piece about why her feminist ideals will be ignored for the sake of wedding traditions. Why bother? Why not just say nothing and get on with it? I find the excuses and the need to publicly make excuses strange.

PetulaGordino · 01/07/2014 21:30

You're probably right about a little discomfort

BelleCurve · 01/07/2014 21:29

Of course you can do whatever makes you happy. Its your wedding after all, but just because you choose to do something and you are a feminist, that choice doesn't automatically become a feminist choice.

kickassangel · 01/07/2014 21:23

I kind of agree but wonder if sometimes a little discomfort is necessary. I don't think a wedding is perhaps the right place to make a stand, though for some people it woul be. If the couple getting married have thought about it an are happy going along with it then that's pretty much what matters most.

It's if a couple want to do thing differently but aren't sure how, or feel obligated to meet other peoples expectations that I see a problem. Eg my mother feels uncomfortable that I don't like cards addressed to Mrs Dh first name Dh last name. I hate that and insist in having my own first name. It's important to me and I just think she has to put up with my wishes. I got married at 23 and just took the easy route. If I got married again now in my 40s I would just do it all my own way and I know my mother would be having a fit and worrying about what everyone would think but at my age no way would I do the whole blushing virgin being passed from father to husband. I know it sounds harsh but she would just have to accept my wishes. I probably would try to make her feel welcomed and loved but there would be some things I just wouldn't compromise on.

Having said that, I have no problem with anyone doing the big meringue and traditional service and would never judge them or make any kind if comment excepts to genuinely wish them well. Freedom of choice is important and I value other peoples choices as much as my own.

PetulaGordino · 01/07/2014 21:20

I think you do have to consider the extent to which your preferences (which may or may not be influenced by sexist socialisation and learned behaviours) might have a negative impact on women as a group.

But I also think you have to consider yourself and those close to you as individuals.

Being a feminist is never the easy option, basically.

Original poster
Thurlow · 01/07/2014 21:01

I'm not willing to sacrifice guests' comfort in that respect on the altar of my feminist ideals

Exactly. I saw a comment recently about feminism being about women's liberation, not equality - which suggested that in order to be a true feminist you would need to sacrifice things to the altar of your feminist ideal.

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Original poster
Thurlow · 01/07/2014 20:59

It's the possibility that one action can undo all others. So you could be a strong, successful woman in a traditionally male field at work, you could volunteer for charities that support women's rights, you could donate to charities that strive to improve the life of women in Afghanistan, you could be like the original author and try to combat everyday sexism... But if on one day of your life you decide to look like a Disney princess, let your dad walk you down the aisle, and throw a bouquet to your female guests - well, you've just let the side down, haven't you?

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PetulaGordino · 01/07/2014 20:57

God, sorry for multiposting

The fact that neither of us has a close female relative/friend who would be comfortable giving a speech is telling in itself - that is clearly rooted in sexism. But I'm not willing to sacrifice guests' comfort in that respect on the altar of my feminist ideals. I may be perpetuating damaging attitudes though. (More likely, I would bite the bullet and say something myself)

PetulaGordino · 01/07/2014 20:54

E.g. There are some aspects of a traditional wedding that trouble me from a feminist POV (only men giving speeches), but on the other hand I wouldn't want anyone attending to feel uncomfortable or put under unnecessary pressure (my mum and dp's mum would hate to give a speech but my dad would love it and it would mean a lot to him, and neither do nor I have any other close enough females to call upon).

PetulaGordino · 01/07/2014 20:48

Thurlow I do understand your thinking, and that is exactly the internal debate I am having with myself (and discussing with dp) when we consider how we would like to get married if we choose to do so.

Trills · 01/07/2014 20:42

I'd just like to applaud this from Petula

"people don't like others doing things that throws into question their own actions"

Original poster
Thurlow · 01/07/2014 20:24

There's something that is bothering me about some of the posts on here and on a thread about name changes that is running at the moment (the OP mentioned this thread so I'm going to guess it's ok to half-link the two threads)

There seems to be a slight undertone from some posts and posters, on these threads and in general, that it is more important to chose the feminist thing to do than it is to do what you would actually like to do.

So take your dad walking you down the aisle. The feminist approach is to view that in its historical context of chattel being passed from one man to another. And it is very, very hard to separate the act from that history. But if you know it will make your dad proud and happy and so you would like to have him walk you down the aisle for your sake, should you chose feminism over your family?

Or say you just like a big, white wedding dress with a veil. Say you actually look good in a big white wedding dress with a veil, better than you look in a red dress, or a little white dress. But white is tied with virginity and being untouched, and a veil is tied to being hidden before being 'taken' - so should you reject them and wear a dress you are less happy in, because it is the correct feminist thing to do?

Thinking about this is actually helping me to figure out some things I have been thinking for a while. I like the idea of people being able to do whatever the hell they want to, as long as it doesn't hurt someone. So I struggle a bit with the concept that you shouldn't have a ring even if you want one, you shouldn't wear the dress you want, you shouldn't wear your grandmother's veil, you shouldn't let your dad walk you down the aisle, because if you say you are a feminist, you should do everything in a feminist way. Because that would mean you are not doing what you want to and (aware this bit might get me flamed) and you're actually doing what someone else tells you you should do: trading do what the patriarchy says you should for do what feminist theory says you should.

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Bue · 01/07/2014 19:07

In the C of E being "given away" doesn't even exist anymore. For proof, see the service wording here: www.churchofengland.org/prayer-worship/worship/texts/pastoral/marriage/marriage.aspx

I get the impression that LB hasn't even looked at the ceremony wording Hmm. She'll be aghast to find that it is completely egalitarian in every way and there's not much there to raise feminist hackles.

Being walked down the aisle is a totally different thing, although of course historically they are linked. Despite being a feminist I chose to have my dad walk me down the aisle because I actually wanted a fairly traditional wedding, and I knew my mum would want to see it. But no one gave me away.

chicken we did the same, went shopping together and bought a ring for me and a watch for DH. He felt more strongly than I did about having some sort of symbol of engagement, so I just went with it. But I was adamant that if I had such a symbol, then so would he.

ChickenFajitasAndNachos · 01/07/2014 18:51

I was fine with having an engagement ring and I brought my DH a watch. Instead of a wedding band I have an 'eternity' ring. I'm not sure why I went for that option, I think I just liked it. My DH has a wedding band.

WhoKnowsWhereTheTimeGoes · 01/07/2014 18:32

I struggled with the engagement ring, it is the one part of the beautiful costume etc that I did love as a child, I have always loved jewellery and worn rings. But I was very torn because of the inequality of it. In the end I did have one, it was only unequal for a year or so as we both wear rings now (the fact that I have two and DH has one doesn't really matter). We discussed wedding rings up front and if DH had said he wasn't going to have one I would have had neither wedding or engagement rings myself.

I tried on a friend's veil and felt physically sick though. It is interesting that I could cope with the symbolism of wearing an engagement ring for a year but not a veil for a few hours. However the veil would have been very much centre stage on the day and in the photos, whereas the engagement ring on it's own was over by the wedding day and forgotten about.

ChickenFajitasAndNachos · 01/07/2014 18:14

I didn't do the father giving away the daughter thing. I thought to myself I don't belong to anyone so how can I be given away, i'm a person not an object. DH and I went to the registry together and walked down the 'aisle' together as 2 equals.