British Airways - lipstick

Yes the pilot should really be including curling her eyelashes in the pre-flight check to give her that 'wide-awake' look.

What background do commercial pilots usually have?

I still want to know if the female grooming thing comes at a cost to the employee and if that is reflected in salary. Anyone know?

I bet BA don't tell he to repair her lippie every few minutes

Well taking the statement that makeup is required to confer authority (in women) the pilot should be even more made up than the cabin crew.

"Why do you think women wouldn't be suitable DinoSores?"

Of course I don't think women wouldn't be suitable overall, but if they are only getting a tiny number of female applicants, they can't just appoint them because they are female to reach some 50% target!

There are much bigger reasons why women aren't going into aviation as pilots. Far fewer women do physics at school, for example. Young girls/women don't see being a pilot as a career for them. This is where things need to change, rather than imposing Affirmative Action blindly.

There's article and picture in today's Daily Torygraph about a father and daughter who are pilots for BA, saying there were father and son combinations but rarely father and daughter.

I bet BA don't tell he to repair her lippie every few minutes and totter around in high heels.

I'm really glad that I am not the only one who felt this way. This may sound strange but I was really upset by how they treated their staff.

A lot of the recruits had to leave jobs, save, buy expensive uniforms all to be shafted in their new contracts.

I wish employers would see their staff as an investment and instead of creating a climate of fear with snapshots .

It bloody awful. Of course they aren't going to be as good or experienced. They are only hiring 'mixed flight' crew so that they can pay them poorly and give them less job benefits than their existing employees. I will never use BA again.
Putting these people through six weeks unpaid training with no guarantee of a job is a joke. Workers don't deserve that shit.
All the things they got snapshots for were silly little things that don't matter but the makeup, clothes, hair and heels on the women was the worst part. It was so unfair and literally has nothing to do with being good cabin crew. I'm not sure how it isn't sex discrimination tbf.

The whole thing sounds very 1960's or earlier.
I don't understand the point of the clown lipstick they have to wear.
I don't give a crap if they're wearing a make-up or not I just want a safe journey.
Is it so the passengers can be 100% sure that these people are actual women not male? Or is it because some men are lipstick fetishists and need to be horny while on the plane?

positive discrimination is as bad as any other kind. I've been on the receiving end and it is INCREDIBLY patronising.

apparently BA have 200 female pilots out of 3500, which is high for the industry. It's not the hours etc, because (as mentioned in the programme I think) they are the same as for cabin crew where there are plenty of females.

nothing stopping anyone who wants to do it and has the skills from applying. So stop using the word 'geek', encourage science and maths and this kind of job opens up.

no, I'm not a pilot!

While I don't think Jodie was kicked off the course simply for the makeup thing, BA (and the airline industry in general, as I have no doubt it's the same at many carriers) came off pretty badly in terms of its blatant institutionalised sexism.

The worrying thing is that BA probably thought this documentary was great in terms of showing their "high standards" of service.

But seeing a group of male trainees doing really tough simulator training vs the mainly female cabin crew trainees being berated about makeup - utterly grim and appalling.

It's actually made me think twice about whether there's a better airline I could fly with when I do a long-haul trip this summer - one that treats its female cabin crew with a bit of respect and doesn't impose these time-consuming grooming standards on them. Maybe a US based carrier?

Best uniform for CC-

Spotlessly clean and tidy
Short nails
Hair tied back, very neat
Trousers
Flat 'sensible' comfortable shoes
Not overweight (controversial!)

and why are they not getting the applicants? Because they foster an atmosphere which is hostile to women...perhaps?

Why do you think women wouldn't be suitable DinoSores?

"when companies like ba are forced to accept 50 percent of their new pilot applications from women"

What a daft idea.

BA positively encourage applications from women and have more female pilots than any other UK carrier apparently. They are just not getting the applicants, so can't just give out posts to any woman who applies regardless of suitability.

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/11/21/british-airways-training-scheme-women_n_4310417.html

Men do. Women adorn.

That's what it is all about really.

Did everyone see last night's episode. Every one of the new cadets or trainee pilots was a man. Not a woman in sight. When will things change? when companies like ba are forced to accept 50 percent of their new pilot applications from women. Make it mandatory and be done with it.

This was policy for holiday reps when I worked for First Choice many moons ago too, they had a list of particular brands and shades of lipstick that were accepted and stated that you should wear foundation (in 30 degree heat) and heels of a certain height despite having to walk all over town between hotels and spend ages standing around at airports.

I can see the point of being visible from afar, but their gaudy floral printed uniforms made sure of that, without needing a ton of slap. The men's uniforms were just a light blue shirt and beige trousers so they looked like any other vaguely smart man at the airport, with only a clipboard to distinguish them.

My flat mate saw me come out of my bedroom one morning and looked shocked, she actually didn't recognise me without my bright pink lipstick on as she was so used to me being fully made up.

I didn't see this programme, but it is depressingly unsurprising to hear that it's still a thing.

I enjoyed the programme, but as always we don't know what went on behind the scenes. From the scenes shown, Jodi was not sufficiently mature and organised for the job - she was late, she left bits of uniform behind, etc. The lipstick thing was just the last straw. If you want to do this job, you have to be prepared to meet their admittedly daft standards.

there's a BA video on one of the links, the women in it have huge clownish red mouths and look ridiculous - but that is the policy. No-one actually cares except the top brass; and no-one is forced to do the job. I have never understood why anyone would want to be cabin crew anyway - looks an awful job.

No customer cares about uniform; I've done a tourism job and I know what the customers care about.

BTW if you want real horror, look up Singapore Airlines' prospective cabin crew forums. SA won't take anyone with visible scars or imperfections, and they actually check skin.

My memory of an incident with a woman working for an American airline was that a woman was threatened with being fired for not obeying the appearance rules, which said "Female employees must wear tasteful makeup". Then after it went public, the airline said that the rules were written by a committee which included management and low-level employees, and the intention was to prevent workers from presenting a bizarre appearance, and nobody had imagined (crazy idea!) that a woman might go to work with no makeup at all, and if someone wanted to go without, it would be fine and they'd change the rules to allow it. But I have the memory that the employee quit anyway.

As for Virgin Airlines, you can't look for much feminist cheer from an operation that uses a logo like this:
img.photobucket.com/albums/v496/Fatmonkey/Budget%20Airlines/Virgin%20Atlantic/Virgin2.jpg

Is there a job where superficial (but with great lengths taken to justify why not), expensive and time - consuming requirements are made for male workers and not females doing the same role?

NotCitrus I think you're right there, USAirways has amazing air crew, a lot of whom are older and less model like than some British operators. At least on their Philadelphia and Ft Lauderdale runs.

IIRC there was an American court case about a decade ago where requiring makeup and "pretty" plane crew was deemed not allowed, resulting in lots of middle-aged crew with no makeup. I remember flying via Europe to the US and it was a stunning contrast, but I dont know if other US airlines followed suit or what they do now as haven't been to America in years.