British Airways - lipstick

I have always liked the idea of working as an airhostess but not I wouldn't want to get a got at ba.. That's not even just high standards.. That's rediculius

she got fired from the course because she failed too many of the safety procedures. they gave her several chances but she still couldn't reach the standards required unfortunately.

It is a disgrace that sexism like this still happens - but amazed that BA allowed it in the final cut

Well that because they don't see it as sexism.
Women should make sure that they look their best, and that means covering themselves in makeup doesn't it?

And the fact that a single tone/colour of lipstick is going to look different on different skin tones matters not a jot. Someone somewhere has decided that lipstick colour A is the perfect colour and if it doesn't suit you well that's your fault for not having the right skin tone.

I like wearing makeup, for years I didn't see it as a feminist issue unless someone was telling me to wear it or not to wear it, if you know what I mean. Its crept up on me that while I don't see it that way many others do.

I've started to notice that I'm treated differently depending on whether I'm wearing it or not, in some situations treated more seriously for being barefaced, others not.

Boffin quite.

I am an academic and it is very noticeable that the people who wear make up and look "put together" are very often administrators - nothing against that but it is a typically female role.

Academics and senior managers are much more likely to be dressed in toned down clothing and have no or minimal make up or jewellery.

That's a generalisation of course. But I do think that actually, a sober and make up free appearance in a woman indicates "I am senior enough not to have to think about eyeliner".

An admin colleague of mine got,told off recently for wearing trainers when moving some heavy items. I regularly wear jeans and tshirt and no earrings to work and no one has ever batted an eyelid.

This is all about coding cabin crew as sexy servants, not authority figures.

Female teachers, barristers, nurses, university lecturers and doctors all manage to confer quite enough authority without looking like an Elizabeth Arden advert. It should be the same for cabin crew.

Airlines that advertise their wonderful luxurious business and first class facilities: Emirates, Virgin, BA, Singapore. Cathay Pacific did too.

Airlines that advertise with beautiful female crew in lots of makeup: Emirates, Virgin, BA, Singapore. Also CP.

Airlines that don't bother advertising luxury: Lufthansa, Kuwait Air, American, SAS if they're still going. Airlines that manage safety just fine without caking female crew in makeup: see above.

Beautiful women equals luxury, especially when most business flyers are still male.

I think that there are already fairly large numbers of male cleaners and nurses - I know that I often see 'male attendant' signs in toilets when out and about, and when DS was in hospital there were a few male nurses (more male nurses than male consultants actually)

I don't understand the need for identikit either - in other careers with uniforms (eg. the forces) the grooming standards are for practical reasons. It seems that it's only when it's a job originally aimed at women that the grooming standards are for 'beauty' foremost.

When I was a bit younger I always wanted to be cabin crew. I had interviews with Ba, Jal, virgin and various charters. All the grooming standards were the same pretty much. I have friends who work in charters, budgets and ba and the standards are still the same now if not worse with some also insisting you keep your bmi at 20.

It's no longer my dream job. Not worth the hassle for 24 hours in Sydney once every 5 years!

I think I remember that air crash episode sashh.

Anyone know which (if any) airlines have less extreme appearance requirement?

Unfortunately I can't remember the name of the airline but I flew to/from Verona changing flights in Germany. UK-Germany was Lufthansa then the second flight was a small Italian airline. One of the flight attendants was in trousers, flat shoes and a wraparound cardigan - all uniform.

I'm a bit of a fan of 'aircraft investigations' and on one of those they interviewed a flight attendant who had survived a crash (it might have been the one that went in to the potomac) and someone gave her a coat or a blanket which she put on. One of the airline managers saw her and told her to take it off because it wasn't uniform.

I suspect it's not a family friendly career

Agreed - although noted above, pilots and cabin crew have the same schedule and it doesn't deter many female cabin crew (in fairness I know there are cabin crew with children but it's less common, I would bet). So whilst us old gimmers might struggle to blend piloting and family life, the sprightly twenty somethings have no excuse except perhaps a desire to wearing authority-conferring lipstick

sorry off track

yes of course it is sexist and also bizarre. airline stewards and makeup counter people are the only ones expected to confirm (on pain of job loss) to an ideal of 60 years ago. Why? I mean really who gives a fuck if the women have lipstick?

I suppose it's a uniform thing and they want everyone to look as near as identical as possible like they're doing the trooping of the colour or something (again, why?), so if women are going to wear lipstick then it all has to be the same colour, i guess that's the thinking? they could give them an option of this colour or none I would have thought.

I mean when I go into a shop with unformed staff it doesn't utterly freak me out if two females have different lipstick or 2 males have different sideburns.

Who is all this massive identikit conformity or else for?

I agree chunky. Affirmative action need only be for one generation until it I s firmly embedded. I would love to see more female role models for my children and it wont happen until a 50 percent rule us in place. Of course that also means half of all cleaners nurses etc need to be men.
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anyone fancy a career change?

"This unique programme is open to any aspiring pilots who will be between the ages of 18 – 55 on 1st September 2014. Aspiring pilots from school leavers to those changing career are all very welcome to apply."

here british airways training page (which has a woman in a cockpit as their picture btw):

You will need:

5 GCSEs at Grade C or above, including English Language, Mathematics and a Science (single or double award), excluding General Studies.
PLUS

either 3 A-Levels at Grades BBC or above, excluding General Studies and Critical thinking.
or an Honours Degree at 2:2 (or higher) or a pass (or above) in a higher degree such as MSc, MA, MPhil, DPhil, PhD, MBA.

So it doesn't seem to me that girls are being limited at all there due to not taking stem subjects.

I suspect they don't apply as they don't see it as an option.

There was stuff on the BBC recently about how shite careers advice still is, a real shame.

You don't need to study physics to become a pilot do you?

Astronaut, yes.

I used to feel that positive discrimination and quotas were an awful idea, but I'm starting to come round to them - and here's my reasoning.

In a shop, you put one of each on display - ie. if something comes in 6 colours, you make sure that the customer can see the 6 colours. Jobs need to be like that. How else will it permeate into the heads of children that they can be a pilot no matter their sex/colour/looks unless they see people of both sexes, all colours, attractive and less so doing the job? You can talk about it until you're blue in the face, but if you've only ever seen male pilots and female cabin crew then that's what you will think of when looking for a job.

If you don't display a red ipod, then you won't sell many because no-one will know to ask for one. ie. it's self-fulfilling.

I have high hopes for the BBC's 'no all-male panel show' rule because I think that once young women see more female comedians, they will realise it's an option.

Grooming officer could perhaps brush hair (head and legs) and do nice plaits (ditto)?

I'll bet my horse that the men did.

Heh, heh, heh @ "grooming officer".
WTF did that involve?

Being turned out immaculately is fine. It's the differing standards relating to "Immaculately" that we're discussing.

I dont really know love cos none of them had hairy legs.

I didn't see the programme because I dont live in the Uk but I will say as the mother and mother in law of flight deck crew, an aircraft engineer and cabin crew, that I would only ever want to board an aircraft and see them all turned out immaculately - and that includes the men as well.

It fosters a sense of all is well and that can only be a good thing when boarding an aircraft.

And as an aside my daughter was once the grooming officer for an airline as part of her job as a station manager and I sincerely doubt a person would lose their job because of their lipstick; and all the more-so if the proceedings were part of a TV show.