Is fancying a particular sex and not a particular gender bigoted?

I also agree Chunder .

Bill as far as I can see, they are not attacking mainstream producers, just lesbians. What a surprise.

The comment that originally seemed to get Lily Cade engaged in this was her comment that she is a gold star lesbian. Questioned whether she would work with a transwoman, she replied that she would never suck a dick. This was the transphobic statement, apparently, because ruling out all transwomen is a denial of their womanhood and their lesbianism.

"Even if we're totally opposed to it, presumably we would all go to the wall for the rights of the women who do it to choose who they want to perform with. "

• agree.

Sorry, I should have been clearer, mine was a general point not specifically about Lily.

It seems (which is good) that lily has a fair degree of choice about who she performs with.

I assume, unfortunately, there are women (straight, bi or lesbian) working in porn who have less choice about who they work with. I assume those targeting lily are also targeting mainstream producers of porn (plenty of which includes two females having sex) and such producers mostly have an eye on what will sell when considering such representations.

Or perhaps this isn't the case and it's all Lily's fault for stating and sticking to a preference?

Wants to be validated through sex with women, feels entitled enough to demand sex from women...hmm where have I seen this attitude before?

Bill as far as I can gather watching this twitter fight unfold, Lily Cade doesn't want to have sex with transwomen at all and doesn't want to produce films involving transwomen because she doesn't find that appealing. Other producers of lesbian porn who have been involved in this are also saying there is no market for it in lesbian porn although there is a niche for it elsewhere (presumably male consumers rather than lesbians). This seems to be what is causing the rage - the denial of validation by lesbians, either the specific women making the decisions or the general population of lesbian consumers who don't want to watch transwomen having sex. This is where the accusations of transphobia comes from - the refusal of lesbians to validate the "lesbianism" of transwomen.

There is a noticable tendency for transwomen who participate in these types of discussions online to see themselves as "hotter" than women and to seek validation of that from everyone else. Women become well aware as they are growing up of their place in the pecking order of the male gaze (evidenced by the scoring system used by PUAs and their rage at having to accept someone less than a 7). Straight men would have no hesitation in telling a transwoman she is too ugly for them. Women on the other hand won't come out and say this. Lily Cade for example has made only very veiled references to the fact that the transwomen who are actually putting themselves forward to be "cast" are way too ugly to act onscreen in any capacity as women. The vast majority of women know they are not pretty enough for Hollywood or fame of any type, given the standards applied to women. They're not harrassing film producers to include them in movies on the basis of discrimination. Why is that, I wonder?

I assume that, as far as porn goes, that which is filmed is that which is likely to attract the largest audience?

I'm no fan of porn, lesbian, "feminist" or otherwise but I certainly admire Lily Cade's stance on this. That whole twitter fight is such an example of male entitlement - demanding to be "booked" or "cast" and paid to be in porn as a matter of discrimination? Can you imagine a disabled or old woman demanding to be included in and paid for filmed sex?

Strapons also come off and can be shared. They seem to have forgotten about that.

I'm not sure if my attraction is to men or penises penae/peni now

I agree when there really is nothing further that needs to be said.

tunip that's probably why Laurie Penny has run away from this. It's getting old to say these things. "Transwomen demanding women have sex with them never happens", "transwomen don't threaten women", "transwomen never rape women". We're expected to pretend these things don't happen.

What got me about the Lily Cade thing is, the transactivist argument is always 'oh, no-one is being told they have to actually have sex with someone they don't want to, it's just that it's transphobic to call yourself a lesbian if you're not prepared to sleep with transwomen'.
However. One of the tweets actually accuses her of being transphobic for refusing to film with a particular transwoman performer.
I don't see how the transallies can keep on and on with their claim of 'no-one is being told to have sex with anyone they don't want to' when it is so clearly happening and you can see it there in black-and-white.
Laurie Penny has really dropped the ball on this one, I think.

I am not sure if it is common or uncommon for women with penises in porn to still be capable of fertilising an egg, but there's one difference, along with possible STD transmission for the next difference.

There was also this line of argument that Lily Cade had thrown at her: "Please explain how folks are okay w/strap-ons in lesbian porn but not women with penises...oh right transphobia."

A strap-on is completely different to a penis. A penis is usually attached to somebody born male, and the lesbians I know (I used to know quite a few, as they used to drink in my then local and the bar staff advised them to sit with me as I was 'safe') don't want to have sex with anybody with a penis.

Btw, I never brought the subject up, they did, in a "apparently you're a decent bloke ..." sort of way.

Thanks for that link Flora, it's quite an illuminating post about entitlement and expectation. Lily Cade states she's 'never sucked a cock and never will' and Chelsea Poe counters with an accusation of 'transphobia'. It isn't transphobia, it's merely that Lily, as a lesbian, doesn't want anything to do with cocks. The only person who has the power to say who Lily has sex with is Lily herself. And her partner, of course.

Flora, does this same activist also demand that men-born-as-men film with M to F trans folks? Is there a twitter war about that?