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Original poster

Casting a woman as a transwoman

206 replies

Hazchem · 06/06/2014 10:33

So there is a show about to air on the Australian ABC about Carlotta who is an incredibly well known and important entertainer in Australia. She Les Girls, was the first transexual in an Australian soap opera. An icon, someone whose very being has made changes to the Australian cultural landscape. She was original born male and very early on had surgery

So the person they have picked to play her is a ciswomen. Surely there was a trans actor who could have taken the role. My feeling is that a women has been cast because she can be sexy in the Les Girls numbers without making people feel uncomfortable about seeing her as sexy.

Am I over thinking this? Is it gender equality to have a ciswomen plan a transwomen?

OP posts:
kim147 · 09/06/2014 07:37

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Original poster
Hazchem · 09/06/2014 03:43

Really! I thought it would be included. This thread has been an education. Several people have suggested essays etc to read which I will.

I was also thinking if using the term privilege is wrong in the way I have tried to word it. What is the correct accepted term for what I'm trying to say.

Which is

: because I have not had to face the type of discrimination that might run along side others experience what do I take for granted without realizing.

OP posts:
FloraFox · 09/06/2014 00:47

Hazchem how transwomen are portrayed is a trans issue. Women can talk about and organise around how to increase the participation of women or improve the portrayal of women in the media. I could discuss at length how to increase women's participation in male dominated industries but I wouldn't know where to begin with those questions. It's like asking how to increase the representation of black men. Speaking from a feminist perspective, there is no connection with this issue.

Original poster
Hazchem · 09/06/2014 00:26

calmet I guess that discussion is where I am most interested int this "issue". Why aren't we seeing good transactors? Why did the procedures choose to make the show without having a good transactor available? what structures do we need to start building in so that we are getting better transactors available for roles? Would we get more transactors on screen will that encourage more transpeople to see they are able to have a career in the industry.

Almondcake No I don't think they are bollocks but I think human rights aren't as clear cut and unbaised as they are made out to be.

Yes I think some women hold a privileged position within society because of the structures around them. This doesn't mean I think they aren't oppressed. It's a bit like I think It a gay may can be both privileged and oppressed at the same.
I'm not sure if you mean power structures or the set of things you said when you said this sorry. "It is a common set of ideas that have spread amongst people who use privilege checking/calling out/confessionals of personal privilege."

FloraFox see I sort of thought transwomen and women in the TV were aspects of feminism. How women are portrayed is I thought part of feminism.

OP posts:
FloraFox · 09/06/2014 00:14

I don't think your points are dull or offensive but I'm not sure how to respond to them. Since this is FWR, I assume you want a feminist slant on this but it's not a feminist issue. Without any feminist analysis, I would answer your questions as:

  1. Since Carlotta seems to have been closely involved in this production, I would guess the casting of a woman was to make Carlotta appear completely passing. Casting a transwoman or a man would be more realistic but less flattering. I think you're probably right that the film makers would think it would be more appealing to a male audience.
  1. I've no idea what trans people are asking for in terms of exposure on television or whether this is enough. There seemed to be an outcry about Jared Leto playing a transwoman.

Laverne Cox seems to be the only transwoman acting in the US at the moment. Spectacularly badly cast, in my view and very unconvincing as a late-transitioning married father but the trans community seems to be happy about this casting.

almondcakes · 09/06/2014 00:12

I don't think you are a mean, nasty person; I just disagree with you.

The human rights I listed were access to sanitation and education. I have never met anyone who thought such things were bollocks.

You did say women were privileged.

I am not calling you out: I loathe calling out. I don't need a confessional about you as a person. I am interested in your opinion, which is why I have botheredto respond to your posts.

Of course you didn't talk about using privilege to hide power structures! You can't hide something by telling people you are hiding it. It isn't you personally. It is a common set of ideas that have spread amongst people who use privilege checking/calling out/confessionals of personal privilege.

calmet · 09/06/2014 00:08

hazchem, I suspect finding a good Trans actor is challenging. So producers are left with the choice to cast a woman or a man. Since the dominant view is that "trans women are women", it makes sense to cast a woman.

Original poster
Hazchem · 08/06/2014 23:29

"Almondcake"

"Your notion that Western media is only viewed by Western women is a reflection of your Western privilege."
In fact just in case you didn't read it this is when I first mentioned my prividlge

"Or I'm trying to challenge how I see the world because I come from a position of privilege in some area but at the same time feel the system is becoming harder and harder to be within."

So You know I might have grown up in a western world and I don;t fully understand the broadcasting/media saturation in non western countries. I'm aware that my world view is limited by how I have experienced the world. That is why I am asking the questions. Because I don't know. I want to understand better, I want to not be part of the problem. How else would I find out these thing without question. Please stop acting as 'm a mean nasty person hell bent on the oppression of women because I'm to stupid to see ;m part of an oppressed group.

well I think the way we talk about human rights are a bit bollocks actually because most of the things we we equate with human rights were written by a group of western men.

I'm not play oppression olympics, nor have equated pregnancy and womenhood because that is rubbish. I'm simply stating that I think that trans women (in this case) have less access to the institutions within society. I am not saying that women are holding privileged over or oppressing transwomen I am saying because I women born women do not have to face the same problems that transwomen do and lots of those problems are because society as a hold is not set up to deal with fluidity of gender.

I can't see where I have talked about using privilege to hide power structures.

My concern in this post has always been

  1. Is casting a women born women in the main because it is more acceptable for men to find her sexy
  2. is casting a women born women in a transrole a blow for trans women's exposure because there is so little of it in Australian TV.
    My second point is the part I worry about because I'm not sure if a) having a women born women play a transwomen is the sort of recognition that trans people are asking for and b) is just having the show enough.

These points are either so dull no one wants to think about them or so offensive to all women they have largely been ignored.

I used privilege as I have explained many times to talk about the fact I might be missing the bigger picture. What a dreadful arrogant and ignorant person I must be for want to explore this issue from others points of view.

OP posts:
motherinferior · 08/06/2014 20:58

No, I'm not a lesbian (I tried but wasn't very good at it). I've just met lots more transphobes than homophobes.

almondcakes · 08/06/2014 20:09

Hi Kim. Yes, I have a lot of privilege because I am whiteand British.

calmet · 08/06/2014 20:05

motherinferior - Are you a lesbian? I only ask because I have certainly met them. And I would be surprised at any lesbian involved in feminism who hasn't.

motherinferior · 08/06/2014 20:03

Who are these mythical women bending over backwards to defend transwomen but not lesbians? I've never met any. And I'm 51 and have been tediously right-on since about 1982.

Thumbwitch · 08/06/2014 17:20

Hazchem - you said you couldn't find much about Carlotta's involvement with the film about her life - well here you go:
www.news.com.au/entertainment/tv/jessica-marais-steps-into-carlottas-big-shoes/story-e6frfmyi-1226637880852

and from Wiki on Carlotta:
Currently and 2014 Feature Film
Carlotta is currently touring Australia with her "Carlotta: Live and Intimate", a one woman show that regularly features all sorts of events and premieres like Sydney's Mardi Gras. In 2013, she became involved with the ABC as a co-producer and consultant on a TV movie project, which is based on her life that will air in 2014. Actress Jessica Marais will portray Carlotta in the telefilm.

Both indicate that she was pretty heavily involved.

kim147 · 08/06/2014 17:09

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calmet · 08/06/2014 17:08

Do you take part in any other forums where radical feminists and Trans peopel talk together?

kim147 · 08/06/2014 17:06

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calmet · 08/06/2014 17:05

I was there. It was a good event with some good speakers.

kim147 · 08/06/2014 17:04

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calmet · 08/06/2014 17:04

I am surprised that you have defended RadFem 13.

kim147 · 08/06/2014 17:03

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calmet · 08/06/2014 17:00

On the changing rooms thread, when talking about how women have privilege. And that is just today.

kim147 · 08/06/2014 16:59

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kim147 · 08/06/2014 16:55

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kim147 · 08/06/2014 16:52

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calmet · 08/06/2014 16:49

Kim you spend most of your time on MN complaining how hard done by you are. And you routinely deny the oppression women experience. No I don't see women here doing that.