Meaningful consent?

my boyfriend and I will be having fun with the deep throat spray for quite some time!

No, your boyfriend will be having fun. You will just be in less pain as you're dating a twat.

That is FUCKING VILE

What kind of man wants a woman to use that product?!! Thinks it's reasonable that she should?!!

Tmi but I don't like giving oral much due to a bad experience when younger, I do occasionally but I have to be really in the right mood and then I am happy to do so, but it's not something I can turn on and make myself do iyswim? Anyway Dp is perfectly fine with this. He enjoys it when he gets it but he doesn't even ask for it, he knows it's something I will do when I am happy to and he would never expect it or pressure me in any way. That's normal right? Not men expecting it to the point they want their partners to use a numbing throat spray so they don't gag...

What next? Help your woman relax with extract of Roofie?

Dear god, how is that seen as a reasonable product to market :(

And the reviews from women saying how pleased they and their partners are that they can perform oral 'properly'...

Ann summers sell a throat anesthetic so women can give deep throat oral and it not hurt?!! Please tell me that's not true?!!

Exactly! I don't get it either!

Well, this is it. MAP/abortion are about the woman's body. Child support is about the child's needs. And yet some men (and women) think the ethical thing to do is let men in on one or both of those.

I don't get it.

Sorry re contract I meant to say that whilst I can sort of get the idea I don't like thinking that s woman is or could be in the position that she thought she would be ok with having an abortion but when it is reality she finds she isn't and that she then feels compelled/forced to have one.

And once the child is born its not about what fair to the parents, it's about the rights if a child, which include being supported financially by parents.

The reality is of course that men can and do walk away and society does fuck all about it... We slate and pilliory single mothers though..

I sort of get the idea of a contract but the truth for many (man and woman) is that until faced with an unplanned preg you don't know what you will be happy doing. I am totally pro choice btw but ds1 was a sort of unplanned preg and I knew straight away I couldn't have an abortion. Dp never mentioned it, his view is that an abortion would have to be my choice.

Our family is probably complete now and we have discussed what we would do, I would certainly consider abortion as an option ans give it serious consideration but I can't say for sure that I would def have one.

Yes def billandted we think more about the risk of preg for a start!

I think there is a feeling that sex (non piv) always leads to piv sex. I am not sure where this assumption comes from? It's certainly the case in my younger years that boys expected it to or if not then they 'at least' get a blow job.

Thankfully dp has never had such assumptions/expectations. I wouldn't be with him if he did!

I have just said as much re piv sex nit being the only option on the other thread.

Another poster has now said if a man asks a woman to take the map and she says no it's not fair he should have to be responsible for a child that results... I thought taking map was a choice a woman could take, not one they are obligated to do because a man says so... Bangs head on brick wall.

And yes, re that thread - the idea of having a pre-contract was brought up, discussed and mocked; the idea of just getting to orgasm some other way didn't even get that traction!

SGB, if you get good recommendations of books, I'd be interested, though mine are younger than yours.

5mad, I instinctively feel that couples who use condoms have PIV as less of a "default" option.

billandted that thread has infuriated me as well!

I have had Frankish discussions with ds1 and made it clear that consent must be mutual and enthusiastic and that it's fine and good to experiment, that sex isn't just about piv sex, there are plenty of other ways to have fun but that they must always always be sure they BOTH want to be doing it!

Personally piv sex is not the be all and end all, yes we enjoy it but as we rely on condoms for contraception we enjoy a lot of other stuff as well. No one spoke to me about this though, it's been a mutual exploration for both of us. As a teen I think I felt sex was piv and what you had to do, ditto blowjobs, they were something girl's were expected to do :(

My own experiences are based on both my age (49) and being involved in various fetish/BDSM scenes as well as the porn industry. I've been used to sexual activities that didn't involve PIV, sometimes didn't involve touching each other's genitalia, etc. I've also been used to lots of discussion around what was wanted and not wanted before and during sexual encounters.

And certainly, when I was a teen and starting out on sexual experimentation, PIV was rare because everyone was terrified of unwanted pregnancies (the 'done thing' was to go and get the pill only when you were 'serious' about your boyfriend... - we were the pre-AIDS generation and condoms were seen as very old-fashioned and a bit comical).

I don't know what sex ed is like in schools these days, though I suspect it's fairly useless as it always has been. I will be getting DS some books on the subject after consulting some mates who are active in sex ed and sexual health organisations. (DS is 9 but he's really not very interested yet.) I want him to learn, firstly, that sex is about enjoyment for all concerned and that everyone has the right to refuse = and to accept - any sexual offers made to them. I also want him to learn that there are all sorts of different things that you can do to give yourself and other people sexual pleasure, and that a little experimentation can be fun (but that's stuff I would rather he learned from books than from his mother...)

I don't like the idea that so many girls and young women feel they just have to do what's expected of them when a man is sexually interested in them. However, I don't know that it's actually worse than it used to be - I can remember when the idea that women enjoyed sex at all was regarded as fairly revolutionary, and rape myths were going strong when I was young.

If either partner decided to make a massive unilateral change to the repertoire of the couple's sex life then it should be a big deal. If the female partner decided that, in the greater scale of things, one particular act could be foregone, then that is right for them (continuously renegotiation is a feature of a healthy relationship). If however it was a deal breaker for her, then the deal is broken, just as it could be if PIV were unilaterally removed.

If anal sex were important (say as it is for many male gay couples) and that were unilaterally removed, then that would be a similar potential deal breaker too.

There was a recent thread about the quality of SRE in schools (the Terence Higgins Trust publicised a story). It wasn't a particularly active thread, though. The THT quoted OFSTED as saying that 1/3 of schools were not providing adequate age-appropriate SRE. That needs to be improved.

YY do they tell girls at school these days that sex is supposed to be pleasurable and fun and OH LOOK here's a clitoris in the way that they totally didn't in my day? Because they really should.

On sex after birth, I had CS and told the GP that sex was painful and she said what do you expect you've got a massive internal wound you need to give it time to heal up to the tune of some months until it's really all better not just 6 weeks. Was I told this after either CS? No. Would it maybe be useful for women who have CS and their partners to be informed that there might be pain and that is normal and maybe lay off for a while etc, well yes FGS.

I don't think I have ever thought about it and have always been just as up for it as my partner was. (Except once or twice but not with DH)

Actually, thinking about the 'once or twice' times, I don't think I consented but I wasn't asked IYSWIM. It was assumed. So no, meaningful consent was not given in those circumstances. That's quite a horrible thought now thinking about it in more depth.

Med, if a man said after 10 years of marriage that he would no longer perform cunnilingus, would you expect the same impact on the marriage as a woman saying she no longer wanted PIV?

My instinctive reaction is no, it would be lower impact.