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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What films should my children watch?

58 replies

OutsSelf · 29/05/2014 00:13

I have a 3.5 year old and we don't watch TV. I do like the idea of him watching films though, but it has to be sufficiently non sexist for me and non violent for DP to both agree to it.

So far we've got My Neighbour Totorro, and that is only passing the minimally sexist bar (pathetic mum, care taker older sister, dodgy old woman figure, etc). AND THAT'S IT!

What can he watch and look forward to? I've accepted that I will have to be patrolling discoursing the sexist stuff because I live in patriarchy but only to a certain extent. Like, fuck princessery and heroic princes, and fuck beauty-is-virtuous stuff.

What do you let your children watch? I'm asking here cos I assume you more or less have my values wrt to gender stereotyping...

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pleaseaffixstamps · 04/06/2014 08:28

I'd second/third/whatever Despicable Me. The girls in it are fabulous. (Bonus points for positive portrayals of adoptive families, which has only just occurred to me as I type this!)

Possibly not quite yet, but when he's a tiny bit older, get a box set of The Sarah Jane Adventures. They are every bit as good as Doctor Who, less scary, and are HEAVING with positive role models (but not in an obvious preachy way).

Eg: the heroine is a single mother in her late fifties/early sixties, who earns her own living as a journalist, and who regularly saves the world. My DS has grown up without finding this remarkable at all, but perfectly normal, which I love.

Her teenage sidekicks are realistic but positive, and have included plenty of strong teen girls, who carry the action every bit as much as the boys. There's a really good mix of white, Black and brown teens, and a sort of analogy for an autistic teen who is adopted by Sarah Jane (he's an alien, and brilliant, and there's a bit of Explain This Earth Custom For Me at the beginning). There's some great acting: the actor who played Clyde Langer I expect great things of.

The plots aren't just Monster Of The Week (though there are those there, certainly), but deals well with larger themes of loss and loneliness, getting older (for both the children and for Sarah Jane), change, all kinds of things. It's a brilliant series.

Greythorne · 04/06/2014 08:09

Going back to Mary Poppins....
I don't think the mother is absent because she is a suffragette. I think she is absent because she is an upper class woman of her time with a full household staff (cook, a maid and a nanny).
Her suffragette song near the beginning is FAB!
And it gives ample opportunity to introduce the suffragettes to the DC.

Plus Mary Poppins is a wonderfully intriguing strong female lead.

And it passes the Bechdel Test!

Greythorne · 04/06/2014 08:04

Chitty Chitty bang bang is a game of two halves. Starts off wonderfully, ends up as a nightmarish journey into the heart of darkness. My kids hate it. If your DC is at all sensitive, avoid.

MortaIWombat · 03/06/2014 22:09

Try one of the early Mr Bean episodes.
The Fox and the child is good too. And Swallows and Amazons is excellent.

ReallyFuckingFedUp · 03/06/2014 22:09

I like both as a child but haven't seen them recently... it's when you watch them as an adult you suddenly get that "oh my god" feeling.

Bedknob and broomsticks seems like it should be though.

I go back and forth on Mary Poppins...

OutsSelf · 03/06/2014 21:55

Aha, I touted Mary Poppins with a feminist friend IRL and she also thought that the Suffragette thing was more or less a slur. There is a scene where she's basically framed as prepared to hand over her kids to anyone rather than look after them herself. Still, the professionalisation of all domestic labour is quite feminist, yes?

Okay, I'm probably hyper sensitive wrt Totorro. The illness is never disclosed but you'd think it was something tubercular. If you were thinking about it. I didn't like all the wimpyness, 'Ooo, I'm just so determined to get better' and the dad saying, 'That's the spirit!' I've always been very easy to patronise though. That said I will concede Totorro and not just because the horse has bolted on this one

We have Kiki's Delivery Service, the whole, cat-is-in-possible-danger-but-turns-out-not-to-be meant we turned it off without getting to the end. We did watch some of some Toystory which happened to come up on the telly but DP was concerned with the (pantomime) violence between Woody and Buzz. Which I'm realising sounds ridiculous but our kids are tiny and have just never seen anyone fighting like that. DP was shocked by how casual and extreme it was and we weren't 100% sure that DS can sort out the pretend violence and its lack of consequence for plastic stuff. Which maybe he can now? I'm such a childhood development amateur.

So we did try some Buster Keaton, because DP and DS watched some at SiL's birthday party a while back and DP loved that he and DS could watch something together and both appreciate it. It was dreadful, the woman was pathetic (though you had to be able to read the subtitles for the detail of that) and then he blacked up, I am not kidding. So fuck Buster Keaton.

Okay, what do you think of Bedknobs and Broomsticks? I've never seen it. And Chittychittybangbang? I vaguely remember a child snatcher in that which may not suit our little boy's temperament...

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WhizzFucker · 03/06/2014 21:53

www.commonsensemedia.org/ is great for helping choose films for children and highlighting any sexism, violence, homophobia or whatever without you having to screen in advance.

I / we loved Curious George when DS was little enough, but I can't remember now if there was anything dodgy (or any women in it at all...)

TheSarcasticFringehead · 03/06/2014 20:19

Also, I think it's called Hoodwinked? It was great.

Yama · 03/06/2014 20:16

I love Inkheart. Also, Nim's Island is not bad. Can't remember what age dd watched these.

Dd loves all the studio Ghibli stuff but it's not my cup of tea so she watches with dh.

Ds is almost four and is into the Toy Story films at the moment. In fact, he's only really gotten into films. He can sing every note of every song in Frozen as he and dd share a room and have the cd.

TheSarcasticFringehead · 03/06/2014 20:14

I work for Disney and we don't have the best track record, avoid a lot, more recent films are great- seriously, Maleficent is very feminist, mother's love and not just romantic love, Frozen is great imo. Despicable Me is great in my opinion- the girls are strong characters who aren't typically 'girly' in any way shape of form, the younger one might like stereotypically feminine things (pink unicorns, fairies and so on) but is more balanced, like a real child.

I dislike Mary Poppins- the suffragette mother is shown as quite weak and stupid.

ReallyFuckingFedUp · 03/06/2014 20:06

I like your addition of "jolly songs" Grin

Greythorne · 03/06/2014 19:28

Mary Poppins

Suffragette mother.
Father goes on a journey to become a better Dad.
Both boy child and girl child learn how to do housework by magic.
Jolly songs.

ReallyFuckingFedUp · 03/06/2014 19:24

Yeah that's how I see the illness too Fram, also the old lady does do the dusting..the sprites made it dusty!

Rockdoctor · 03/06/2014 18:01

I'd also suggest looking at some of the other Studio Ghibli movies. We like Ponyo and the one that is based on The Borrowers (Arrietty?), but I think you have to think of the cultural context.

Fram · 01/06/2014 21:26

I'm pretty sure the mother in Totoro had cancer or tuberculosis, and obviously having a cold would prevent release from hospital! It's set in the 50s.
I do think the dad isn't v good at looking after his children... however I think it was fairly common in many cultures for older siblings to make food for themselves/younger siblings- I'm not that old, and I had to!

I think The Cat Returns is completely over a 3yo's head- my children couldn't understand it until about 6 or so. Kiki's delivery service is great though, and I love the city she moves to- it's just heavenly! I want to leave home, and have a little attic above a bakery too Envy

gamescompendium · 01/06/2014 18:16

Watching her shoot to "win her own hand" makes me a bit weepy every time blush

I'll let you off, I get a bit weepy every time I watch Elsa sing 'Let it Go' in Frozen.

OutsSelf · 01/06/2014 14:09

Okay, thanks.for.views Smile

WRT to Totorro, it's that it's all quite gender conformist. And the old lady is lovely but is set up by the film as faintly ridiculous - Mai turns up covered in dust just as the old woman is saying she kept the place dusted, when Mai goes missing and they find a shoe, she's described as "making up stories - again"; she's not thought highly of, it's not a respectful portrait. And the mum is held in hospital for a cold and treated like a child by the dad and medical profession. And I thought that if the mum and dad roles were swapped, we wouldn't be invited to celebrate how well the mum's doing at home on her own in the context that the school aged child was making lunch for the pre schooler even though there was a parent at home all day with her. And despite this being so, she still didn't get fed as dad was too busy to stop for lunch and had no clue where she was when his eldest daughter did get in. I'm fairly certain that that would have looked a bit more neglectful, if the mum had been the one failing to organise packed lunch or keep track of her four year old.

I may be overthinking this.

We tried The Cat Returns, he was really upset by the implied injury to (evil) cats. I think he may.be too young, he's basically got no concept of rooting for the "goodies" or taking pleasure in the thwarting of "badies;" as far as he was concerned everyone was behaving badly Grin and no one deserves to be flattened or pushed off a high building. Out of the mouths of babes, and all that...

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ThinkIveBeenHacked · 31/05/2014 08:20

This is why I like Pochahontas. It seems very balanced male/female. And she refuses to go to England with him at the end.

Up?

Wall:E

ReallyFuckingFedUp · 31/05/2014 08:17

Brave is also 'an improvement' on most princess movies but is fundamentally about women being married off. Merida is a good character and again the central relationship is between female relations (this time mother and daughter).

It is about her being married off, but that was a reality for girls then. Watching her shoot to "win her own hand" makes me a bit weepy every time Blush

There also isn't any of the sexist songs to go along with it like in Mulan which can be an issue for children.

ReallyFuckingFedUp · 31/05/2014 08:13

UP has also (unrelated to feminism) of the best scenes I've ever seen in a film about infertility.

Oh and Brave. Dd loves it and love shooting her bow and arrow too.

ReallyFuckingFedUp · 31/05/2014 08:11

Mulan is feminist. But not to a 3 year old. Wouldn't let him watch it, the songs are quite sexist because the characters are sexist, but a 3 year old will just accept it with out understanding the context. .

I totally disagree with your view of Totoro. I grew up watching My Neighbor Totoro and it was my favourite films and a quite empowering one. The children in Ghibli films are great for making children feel like the have a voice. Mum isn't pathetic, she's very ill. Dad is doing a good job taking care of his own children but still a single parent with an ill partner so the oldest child is left taking on some of the adult work..and the old lady is not dodgy at all. She's lovely and cares about the children.

I think UP is a great non sexist film

gamescompendium · 31/05/2014 00:37

I've watched Frozen a lot over the last few weeks. If you know it was based on The Snow Queen it will be a terrible disappointment. But the relationship between the sisters is the most important and my girls really respond to the sisterly relationship (we're seeing the same effect with the Little House books at the moment) and I think that is valuable. Not as good as Lilo and Stitch though which has a real depth of female representations and a more realistic sisterly relationship.

Brave is also 'an improvement' on most princess movies but is fundamentally about women being married off. Merida is a good character and again the central relationship is between female relations (this time mother and daughter).

i think there is an element of working out what you really want from a film and then making peace with that and any imperfections associated with that decision. For me there are very few 'perfect' feminist cartoons, and so I go with female lead characters (preferably not princesses) to balance the male led films they see everywhere else, passing the Bechdal and with preferably several female secondary characters (that last one is hard to find).

mimilovell · 31/05/2014 00:27

I watch everything and rate it on what would my child learn. If there is any sexual stuff with it, swearing, then it is a no go.

WisemansBridge · 30/05/2014 22:55

My dds like Despicable Me and Despicable Me 2 (in the 2nd film there is a strong adult female and the 3 little girls who are in both films are non girly and brave).

They enjoy Hotel for Dogs which is about a brother and sister rescuing stray dogs and building a hotel for them. The sister is the older of the two and very brave and clever.

Cloudy with a chance of meatballs again a good, strong, intelligent female.

The Lion King is okay because the female lion is tougher and more feisty than the lead male. The female hyena is leader of the hyena pack too. Having said that the main characters are male.

I think Frozen is the least offensive of the princessy films because the lead female doesn't have a 'prince charming' rescue her and it's the love between the sisters that saves the day. It's not a perfect feminist film but an improvement on the others for sure (although I've heard Brave is also moving in the right direction - haven't seen it yet myself).

OutsSelf · 30/05/2014 22:42

Thank you everyone, we got The Cat Returns today but didn't quite get round to watching it.

I totally get that we can't avoid it forever, but he is very young! I don't mind doing a bit of ideology critique while we're watching but it does get a bit waring. Also, he is so young that the vague association between beauty and goodness is likely to 'take' whereas my impassioned critique of it is less like to make sense. So it might be nice to just hold it all off for a few years...

I take the point that we live in a sexist culture and it's everywhere. I too grew up in a culture of Barbie and Care Bears etc and I am fundamentally okay. But at the same time, I do live in a sexist environment and I do see the men around me privileged and I see part of that happening because of the things we all grew up accepting as normal.

Can I just ask - Mulan? I've not seen it but avoided it out of Disneyism (cartoon beauty etc.) plus the fact that it seemed to be a romantic retelling of a well documented incidence of statuatory rape. This is a vague sense I had of it and not related to any experience of seeing or discussing it, am I way off?

Also, I didn't think Frozen had done that well, I was sure I'd seen some Fems weeping about it somewhere?

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