Oxford Union president rape allegations - alumni open letter

& lol billnteds last post

missed a load of posts there.

I am enjoying the conclusion that feminism is an appalling political stance because feminists care about women

It is widely recognised that everyone has biases, and the people who claim that they do not, are the most biased of all.

"everything they say is easy to dismiss as far as I am concerned"

Oh no.

Ah, ok, cross posted.

I'll pop back when I've done my shopping and crushed the patriarchy with my huge, unjust doc martens of feminism.

That's very gnomic of you, but not terribly useful in this situation.

We are trying to obtain justice and truth. I believe your approach perpetuates injustice and spreads falsehood, I'm afraid.

My post just then was to Buffy. Not got time to read yours yet LRD.

Justice and truth are justice and truth.
Everyone should be trying to obtain that, not going around with bias. It explains just about everything to do with feminism.

I think you are misunderstanding me, please.

If you have two hungry people, one of whom has ten apples and the other of whom has two, and you have two apples to give away, is it 'justice' to give them an apple each? Or should you try to give the person with two apples more, because they are in greater need?

You could argue only the first option is 'just,' but that'd be to ignore the wider picture of injustice.

To claim your actions as 'unbiased' would be laughable.

In this situation - where the 'apples' are us discussing things on MN, well, yeah, I am likely to spend more of my time discussing rape myths as they affect women, and rape as it affects women, than the reverse. I do not feel that this is 'unjust,' but merely redressing the balance.

It would, as I have said, be very different if I were not discussing things on MN, but making a judgement in court. But I'm not, am I?

I will pick up on some other points, but I have to dip in and out for a while.

Everyone should try to be just. Absolutely everyone.
Having bias is not on.
If you know you have it, a person should try and get rid of it.

It is therefore very easy now to say that if feminists are using bias[I didnt previously realise this btw], then quite frankly, everything they say is easy to dismiss as far as I am concerned.

The world should attempt for truth and justice.

Bias should not come into it.

please, come on.

Justice isn't three-year-olds crying 'it's not fair!'

I (as a person) have a political bias in favour of women, because I am one individual trying (along with lots of other individuals) to redress a much bigger social and political bias against women.

Were I a judge, this would no doubt be something I'd have to keep carefully in the 'non-professional' side of my life.

As a randomer posting on MN, I am reasonably competent my personal bias is no more harmful than yours, or anyone else's.

It is exceptionally naive to imply that anyone is free of bias, btw.

"A bias can never be justice."

Do you think the police, the CPS, the legal system, the judges are, uniquely, unbiased?

Because justice is justice.

A bias can never be justice.

Sorry to triple post ... yes, please, that's precisely the point.

Worry should not trump justice. But in these cases, it generally does, because people's worry about 'false rape allegations' almost always drowns out any attempt at justice. Many, many women who've been raped do not feel able to bring charges. It is very harsh to put the burden on them, rather than those who spread rape myths.

please - I am absolutely biased towards women. That doesn't mean I support injustice. Politically and ideologically, I am in favour of anything that helps women.

I like men just fine, but I'll let them get on with their own stuff.

please, I disagree with that, though I understand why you are saying it.

A huge part of the problem in rape culture is that women do not feel safe to come forward with accusations. Many do not even realize they have been raped until much later in their lives. This is not necessarily directly because of rapists' actions (though it can be). It's because our culture tells women that rape is something shameful, that women lie about, and which ruins the lives of 'decent men'.

If this man had stood aside, I firmly believe women would have felt safer to come forward - the more so, now he's not been charged, because it would be like him saying 'I'm not standing for this, I'm going to prove that I trust the law and I don't need scaremongering that harms women to defend me'.

Put it this way: can you imagine being 18, a student, and having been raped in Oxford today, having heard all the horrible things people have been saying about false rape accusations (which we don't even know that these were - it works both ways, our lack of knowledge)? You would need to have a very strong character to do that, I'm afraid.

I do wish you hadn't used "falsely accused" upthread, Jane, as there's no indication that the police are investigating any false accusations.

Worry should not trump justice.