Oxford Union president rape allegations - alumni open letter

Sorry original letter was on the New Statesman website I meant to write.

Oh. Sorry didn't read that. The original letter asking for his resignation was on the website but I believe it was removed for legal reasons so I hadn't seen the article in the Telegraph.

No, no at all!

I'm just coming to this having had a little while to get my mind around it, because I'd been following the story.

I find it so very depressing.

slip - the link says he's been reinstalled.

Difficult one as he has not yet been charged but from my experience as a member of a similar debating society at a different university, my issue with him staying in post is the well-being of students. These debating societies are typically very macho arenas to begin with and female undergrads who participate are often made to feel like nothing more than eye candy.

I would have hoped that things have changed since my day (about 10 years ago) but if I were a female undergrad at Oxford right now and wanted to get involved in debating I would certainly think twice given these accusations against the President and be concerned to see the Union take some steps to show that they take the accusations seriously.

My understanding is that although he hasn't resigned, he is suspended. Mayank Banerjee, President elect is acting Union President isn't he?

Cross posted and tunip made the point I wanted to make much more concisely. Oops.

Ah, I follow you meand. TBH, as I say, I don't 'choose' between the terms as I know some prefer one, some the other.

I think we can't really deny that some people who have been raped are going to be upset about it, as a bottom line. Sorry to put it so crassly, but, well, it is that simple.

It's not about whether he's guilty because even if he is innocent, even if he's not charged, he's demonstrated he thinks his presidency is more important than the feelings of people who have endured a horrible crime. That is not an attitude you should get to have, and continue in a role like his.

It's normal to step aside for the good of the organisation when you're investigated for something like this - it wouldn't be an admission of guilt and thinking he ought to do so isn't to prejudge whether he's guilty or innocent. The fact that he refuses to, though, speaks volumes.

Referring to people as rape victims does make them sound more vulnerable. Again, I don't believe that someone who has been raped is automatically a vulnerable person and I thought that was why the term rape survivor is sometimes used, as you did in your earlier post. Words matter, especially when we can't talk face to face. Of course you choose the words you use, so do I.

And I do think it's about whether he's guilty or not. How can it not be? There is a difference between being a rapist and not being a rapist. If a rapist has power, that is worrying. If someone who is not a rapist has power, that isn't worrying. At the moment, he is presumed not to be a rapist.

If he is charged and subsequently convicted, I hope women and men will take away the message that if they make an allegation, it can be investigated, prosecuted, the perpetrator can be convicted and can go to prison. That to me strikes the best blow against rape culture.

He looks and sounds like an absolute aresehole, irrespective of the truth of the allegations.

Typical Bullingdon bully. Although it's not called the Bullingdon it's called the Banter Squadron, it appears to be much the same thing.

oxford.tab.co.uk/2014/04/29/union-president-sullivan-is-using-union-funds-to-cover-personal-legal-costs/

Progeny of bankers from Chelsea, St Paul's alumnus, he's the archetypal public school twat.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2622461/Oxford-University-student-Union-president-21-arrested-suspicion-rape-attempted-rape.html

He is free to carry on his life as an innocent person.

But he should stand down.

Accusations of rape are horrific for all concerned. So why should he see being president of the Union as so much more important than the feelings of people who have been raped? There are going to be far more of those people. He should respect that.

I disagree - he hasn't been charged and should be free to carry on his life as an innocent person. Accusations of rape are horrific for all concerned, and there are those who would see a step aside as an admission of guilt. He is damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, so in the circumstances he should stay put. His life has been irrepairably damaged already and, at the moment, he is an innocent person.

I agree, but I think the more important point is, fair, if he's not charged or charged and found innocent, women will still take away the message the Union (or rather, its president, since I understand there's some strong feelings within the Union itself on this) doesn't care.

It's not actually about whether he's guilty or not.

meand - what do you mean, rape victims or rape survivors? Different people prefer different terms, it's not my place to choose.

I know he hasn't been charged.

I do believe that people are vulnerable. Sorry, you may not. And yes, not everyone who has been raped will feel the same way. But obviously, since he's been asked to step down and since the open letter exists, many people do feel this way. Their feelings should count.

I respect that you don't want to go into detail, and please don't feel you have to respond. I hope you're ok.

I don't think it is treating him as guilty. See it this way - say that 1 in 4 women students (and I don't know how many men) have been raped. How are they meant to feel, if someone who has taken on a prestigious and responsible job feels that his own interests and his career are so important, they come before doing all he can to make sure people do not feel triggered by the thought of rape?

If he had stepped aside, and was then proved innocent, people would be saying he'd set a standard and shown he thought rape survivors were important. He's not showing that.

Rape victims or rape survivors? I don't believe that the fact that someone has been raped automatically makes them a vulnerable person forever in all circumstances.

I've just read the article again. He's not even been charged yet.

You do not appear harsh but I can't agree with you. He's been accused of something that he will probably never be free of, even if proved innocent, at this point he is NOT guilty, he should not have to give up
something that is probably a huge part of his life until he is.

I say this as someone who is personally affected by the issues but would prefer not to go into detail on this thread.

nicki - who suggested he wasn't innocent until proven guilty. I'm sorry, I hope I don't come across as harsh but this makes me so angry. No-one has suggested that 'innocent until proven guilty' does not apply, no one.

I still don't agree. Innocent till proven guilty, it can't be different for one particular crime.

nicki - I don't think his life as he knows it should change completely.

But no-one is suggesting it should.

However, he should step down.

meand - I think rape victims are vulnerable people. There is quite a high chance he is working with some rape victims - I think the statistic is something like 1 in 4.

Nicki... For the reasons LRD states at 14:46. It's about acknowledging the seriousness of the allegations and respect for the nature of the crime and it's victims. Not him.