Oxford Union president rape allegations - alumni open letter

True Tunip, but if I was innocent, I and it seems others too, just dont see why he should quit.

because I have basic respect for other people
What about respect for yourself and your family?
That is what it comes down to for me. Students shouldnt be looking at you as if you are guilty. I dont think that they have that right.
Be suspicious, fair enough. Be a little wary, fair enough. But not more.

Not at all comfortable with someone on the thread propagating the rape myth that women and girls "randomly" accuse men of rape, ie that they casually and regularly accuse men of rape for no apparent reason and on a whim.

Inappropriate on the FWR section and against MN "we believe you" rape myth busting campaign.

This isn't a random accusation.
It is a police investigation.
Do you understand the difference?

It has nothing to do with whether he's guilty or not, jojo.

It's right for him to stand down.

You're asking what I'd do. I'd know I wasn't guilty. And I'd stand down, because I have basic respect for other people. It is really appalling if a young man who is supposed to be intelligent and thoughtful, with a record for engaging with difficult debates, cannot see that.

Of course he could be guilty, but I cant possibly know one way or the other.
And if he is, I wouldnt begin to know what a man doing that sort of behaviour is likely to do. Brazen it out at a guess.

I personally dont agree with that philosophy.

What happens of random accusations are just thrown about.

Is someone expected to stand down then?

tbh, I would have thought he could get human rights on to this.
His human right is to work/carry on. He hasnt been charged.

YY, fully agree, whenthe.

It would be honourable to step aside. It would have been good for the Union's reputation and I think good for his too.

Eh? Why would I never work?

You step down while the accusation is going on, and if goes to it, charges and trials.

I cannot imagine standing in front of 30 people and knowing chances are I'm looking at several people who've been raped, and knowing they're being reminded of rape every time they look at me.

I do not think that the president should feel any differently. Do you think men are incapable of understanding emotions? Because I don't. I think he could have realised all of this.

What generally happens is that people step down for the duration of the investigation / prosecution, then at whatever point no further action is taken / they are found not guilty, they go back, and if found guilty, obviously they don't.

It happens quite a lot, in a variety of roles, both paid and non-paid.

What this man is doing is the exception rather than the norm, for people in positions of authority accused of a serious crime.

So if you are innocent, which I presume you are, you just step down? Never more to work at a uni?

Signed. Having read the debate on here and elsewhere. I wouldn't support resignation, but it would be sensible to stand aside whilst under investigation for the good of the Union he purports to represent.

What's honourable about it?

It is comments like that, which make rape allegations so difficult for people accused, you realize. The idea that an innocent man needs to fight for his 'reputation' if falsely accused is a rape myth, and a really nasty one.

I would defend my honour, not throw it away.

I am not one to fall on my sword if I am innocent.

When I was at Oxford in the mid-1980s, the Oxford Union was well-known to be a repulsive institution, a forum for the worst sort of public school machismo and bullying. It's no surprise that the current President is an individual subject to allegations of the abuse of privilege, or that he doesn't see any need to step aside while these allegations are investigated.

Ditto when I was there in the early 90s.

I can't immediately find a list of recent debate topics at the Oxford Union.

But it is typical for these topics to be controversial, sometimes potentially offensive.

How could you debate things like that in this context?

MrsMaturin, yes I do.

If someone is accused of murder, or genocide, or child abuse, or serious sex offences, that is materially different to if they are accused of a parking offence or non payment of council tax.

That's quite obvious to me, and the way it generally works in many roles and occupations.

Jojo teachers generally do take time out of their jobs while being investigated for sex offences, in schools at least.

I also find your post awfully flippant - and you are implying that people (women and girls) routinely accuse other people (men) of sex offences on whims. I am not sure whether you meant to imply that.

I agree BOF. That should be their practice.

Lovesardines - the sentencing tariff varies on conviction yes. Do you honestly think it's fair though that those investigated for rape should be singled out from those investigated for other crimes whilst the investigation is still ongoing - because that seems the implication here.

Jojofoam, there is a police investigation into the rape allegations about the Union president. The police do not begin rape investigations lightly.
To imply this is somehow comparable to you randomly throwing out a totally meaningless and unevidenced accusation against someone you've never met is pretty bloody insulting to women whose rapes are investigated.

In many professional jobs, employees are suspended on full pay while investigations are held- it's hardly unprecedented. It says nothing good about the Oxford Union that this example of good and ethical practice is being ignored.

Well no, jojo - you'd need to take that to the police and have them start an investigation against LRD for that logic to follow. Off you go then!

Do you think you're funny or something?

And for the record, uh, if I were formally accused of sexual assualt (not rape ... UK law ...), I imagine the university would require me to stand down. I'd certainly feel bloody uncomfortable teaching a class of students while knowing some of them were probably feeling triggered and upset by my presence. Oddly enough, that's why I spend quite a lot of my time working out how to teach students about grim stuff without triggering them.

Right LRD

I am immediately accusing you of rape.

Therefore I, and a whole lot of other people expect you to stand down from your teaching job at the uni.