Justifying long term SAHM to DDs?

It is always quite clear on these threads and in rl, who felt like they actually chose their path and who may have been made to pick an option they weren't entirely happy with.

The ones who have truly chosen, themselves, and were able and enabled to prioritise their want (to return to work ft, pt or to sah) - they are the people who seem to be less defensive or aggressive about their position.

Generally it is the people who feel a bit cheated one way or another who feel attacked, undermined or vilified in some way. (eg those who wish they could have more time with children or as part of the home away from work, or conversely those who wish they had some sort of work or life separate to home or children).

Just my rambling thoughts really, but the shitty comments from both sides can get repetitive and annoying imo - there's really no need.

I always love the fact that SAHPs think they are the only ones that volunteer so society can't function without them Every helper, governor and PTA member we have at school works bar one who is retired. It's got nothing to do with employment status but down to the individual.

I hope you are addressing scottish, ithaka; She was the one who made a connection between employment status and 'participation'

..so I could as easily say, in the same vein as yourself ithaka,

So can we please separate contributing back to society from whether you work outside the home or not. There is absolutely no connection between employment status and likelihood to contribute back to society, it is entirely dependent on your personality and values.

ithaka The connection between volunteer work and paid work was mentioned because both can support the community outside the nuclear family. It was inferred that SAHPs do nothing to support the community and are 'nonparticipative', which is incorrect as a generalization.

And one of my choices is to volunteer - I am the sort of person who get involved and that would be my personality regardless of my employment status.

My DH would never, ever, ever volunteer for anything. That is his personality, regardless of his employment status (he actually works less hours than me).

So can we please separate community work/volunteering from whether you work outside the home or not. There is absolutely no connection between employment status and likelihood to volunteer, it is entirely dependent on your personality and values.

Oops X post with capsium - well summarised

ithaka No-one said that

ithak no-one is saying that at all, and hats off to you.

The point that was made is that SAHPs often do a lot of volunteer work to support the community, so SAHPs are participants in society and not, as Scottishmummy inferred when she said,

My individual act of working ft has sociopolitical impact.it drives need for nursery and Afterschool
Conversely housewife not working has sociopolitical impact,meaning some women are nonparticipative and lost to workforce*

I think, as women, we have to be careful, not to take offense when someone vindicates their own choice, which being different from your own, does not automatically mean they are criticizing your choice.

combusti you are being very rude. You're just as offensive as MmeMorrible was earlier. Why? What does it acheive?

"apparently women who work put nothing into the community." and this was said by...............? Noone. Except that little voice in your head.

Parents bring up children combusti
if they are at work they are still bringing up a family.

Childcare workers - do just that -care for children when their parents are at work.

I find it deeply ironic that I have just used up 2 days annual leave to do some volunteer work with teenagers. Or maybe I just imagined it, as apparently women who work put nothing into the community.....

Why snotty over nursery? Do older children not use school?

Not at all Mrscrips- it is scarlett who is suggesting that childcarers don't play a part in bringing up children, not me.

I'm still supporting flexible working. I'm at home but not chained to the fecking sink! Dh still avails himself to all rights as/when able. How again are we not participating?

I cant really blame the nursery for not bringing mine up Dh and I are good enough to manage to drag them on our own as we have spent the last 3 hours lying on the floor like beached whales playing mario whilst the kids sit on us.

combusti

You are insulting parents ,childcare workers and your own intelligence.
Do stop.

Ah. You mean unless I receive a salary I am worthless? What dystopia do you live in? Oh this is so sad it's now funny.

I think having a 'career' is a recently constructed ideology by men as a sop to women. A career can take many forms but I felt sounded ridiculous when a secretary. In the last 20 yrs a career has become VIP. Now ones nothing without one. People in ridiculous roles refer to themselves as in careers when really they have jobs. IMO they believe the hype, make them think they are doing something mighty, valuable and with a posh title and they won't notice their grandmothers did the same jobs. Magazines haven't helped. Idiotic articles proclaiming how people can't bear their kids so scarper back to their careers, except generally again they are actually average jobs. People, women, define themselves so much by what they are paid for they lose worth not gain it. A valuable person is more than their salary.

Not massively elegant or eloquent. There's something there though I think. I'm suffering from a stinking cold. The phone is making me nauseous or maybe just this thread....

Yes thank for the clarification Fideline- you are right. As is scarlett.

That means children are spending 40 hours + a week not being brought up doesn't it. A very large part of a child's waking week to be wasted on not being brought up.

Why do I not participate? I use childcare still. I use local facilities and amenities. I use shops. I assist friends, neighbours, parents. I do everything a wohp or an office worker does.

Agreed Scarlett; childcare settings do not 'bring up' children.

Is that what you meant to say combusti?

No maternity leave on my eldest. He refers to himself as pretty lazy but I work full time, and Im not hardworking either as I spent a lot of time laying around not doing a lot.

Perhaps community facilities are not important to some people. Maybe to the people who are happy to have their children brought up by nurseries and after school clubs

combusti - what a ridiculously pathetic thing to say.

My children have been in some form of childcare since 6 months old, I can assure you I brought them up as did their father.

If, after several hundred posts, and some good serious discussions and thoughts from both sides of the fence this is all you can contribute, then you should be ashamed.

Perhaps you could explain to me though, how a woman enabling her husband's career by being a sahm is furthering or promoting the notion of an equal, more flexible workplace for both sexes? That would make more interesting reading than your shitty little snipes.

Really jas? So he isn't actually a "SAHD" as such then, but i'm confused by the maternity leave thing - had you resigned?