Justifying long term SAHM to DDs?

When my eldest son - nearly grown up at the time-saw how much time and energy my career took when my other children were still quite small, he vowed never to have a "career" himself.

So it can work both ways, in that running found the country in a frazzle whilst juggling a home and family does not look a tempting proposition to outsiders!

I'm not at all convinced that most children follow the same path as their parents.

I don't think anyone has assumed all people have all choices in his thread. I think you've got a bit trapped by the language and missed the wider point on this one.

Others have already said it, but I think it is terribly sad to think that education has value only if it leads to financial reward. That is certainly not something I want to be telling my children.

I went to University because I loved the subject and I came away with two degrees . Having a good education is something I value. I think it equips me to contribute to society in many ways. One of those ways was though paid employment and I have held fairly senior positions.

Now I want to put my children at the centre of my world and be there for them every day when they come home from school. I want to use my education to talk to them properly every day and to teach them to question the wold around them, form opinions and make good judgments.

I don't feel I have wasted my education or that I am somehow a less interesting or stimulating person because I do not go out to work. I hope my sons and daughters will share my love of learning and live up to their potential. I hope they will go to university. How they choose to use their education will be up them them. I would be equally proud of a captain of industry or a SAHP!

Susannah and amber, of course not all people have all choices That surely goes without saying! That doesn't mean being a sahm isn't an equal choice to having a job. I would love to be a sahm but can't as dh's job is so insecure.

I think that education is a red herring tbh.
The successful business I had at twenty came through having no qualifications at all, not even a CSE.
Much later I am PG qualified and have never used my quals.
I have taught all my dc that education serves a purpose and really isn't that important. A good basic education is enough to get most people through life.
University should be a bit more elite, too many degree qualified people and not enough vocationally trained.

I know no one has suggested this is the only thing they do, but I always find the argument that being educated helps people to educate their own children a little circular. Surely there needs to be a point to education beyond simply educating the next generation?

What works well in our family is both parents doing a mix of paid work, voluntary/community work and childcare. I know that's not a model that would suit all families, but I know it's an arrangement that lots of people would like to have, so I'm happy that that's what we're modelling to our children. Whether that's the life they eventually choose for themselves, of course, remains to be seen!

I dunno, I am another well educated hanger on. DD(18) tells me she is going to marry a rich bloke and buy a big house in the country and paint all day.

As all her boyfriends up till now have been penniless arty types, I take it with a pinch of salt.

susannah - education for it's own sake - is not and should not be a worthy high ideal - I did have loans to pay back and I was employed afterwards and paid them off. But I think we should not have high fees for education - it is making education elitist and as you point out forcing students to choose courses that are likely to result in a career.

But the question was how a sahm reconciles eduction and employment goals for her children with her own 'choices' - that is the point of the thread - the fact is you are more likely to successfully complete a course that you enjoy and can relate to.

If I was a SAHM with children of both sexes...

I would expect them to learn that life experience is a set of choices. That they should endeavour to make choices that make them happy (and don't harm others obviously). That as long as you can afford to live, the actual way you live is up to you. That work is valuable, bringing up children is valuable, volunteering, caring, hobbies etc... All valuable and valid choices.

Oh I haven't paid back my student loans either

I'm a degree & postgrad educated SAHM, DH on a six figure sum.

I gave up work completely when he was posted abroad to a third world country and we all went with him. Now we're back after 11 years of me being the trailing spouse and we have all had a blast.

We are a team. He couldn't have reached the position he has, and have a family, if I didn't do everything else. He works long days with lots of travel. I organise the house/holidays/finances and raise our children. Each of us enables the other to do that. If I wanted to go back to work he would absolutely support me but I choose not to have my kids coming home to an empty house and be rushing round evenings and weekends to get the chores done.

I volunteer with 2 charities and am considering getting involved with local politics or being a school governor as the children get older. That is how I 'pay back' my state funded education, in my mind.

Don't daughters usually do the opposite of their mothers anyway? Currently my daughter wants to be a midwife - I couldn't be prouder. She has not chosen an easy path, for sure.

Yes but some people just seem to take it for granted that it is a choice, when its only a choice afforded by a particular set of circumstances. It is not a choice that I have, for example.

The education as an end in utterly is something that troubles me. I'm not sure how moral it is to study something at uni, having been subsidised by the state, and then not use that skill to contribute economically. My sil has done this has never worked, and has also taken out a student loan which she will never pay back. But I do realise she is atypical as a sahm!

I don't work, though I see my role as being a carer rather than a sahm as my daughter is disabled. But I think the principle is still the same as in its up to you what you do and you don't have to justify yourself to anyone. I am one of those people who does no voluntary work either, I just walk my dog :o the worst kind of sahm who gets flagged off in here. I don't care!

I think that all adults in decent physical and mental health should make a contribution to the wider world... but that contribution should not be measured purely in financial terms. Looking after small children and elderly adults, not to mention voluntary work, are just as valuable as earning a wage. One of the most impressive women I know is technically a SAHM, but actually she spends at least three days a week running a voluntary organisation with amazing drive and commitment.

I daresay there are some women (and men) with older children who spend their lives enjoying themselves without any thought of how they could make the world a slightly better place, but I don't move in those sort of circles so can't really comment.

Hello OP, I haven't worked for 23 years approx.
I am well educated, had a thriving business and was a hr tax payer in my early twenties.
I gave it all up to look after my family and support dhs business, because it was my choice.

My dh isn't a high earner though, in fact quite the opposite.
I have modelled that it is important to live the life that you want to and not to let anything including social constraint stand in your way.
Our 2 older dc have a good work ethic and have supported themselves through work since they were 16.
Our dd already knows she wants to travel the world with her career, employing a nanny for her dd that she intends to adopt as she doesn't need a man (she is 10)

I think it is important to teach your dc that for a lot of families with both parents working something has to give that it isn't realistic to think you can automatically ensure all your relationships survive.
For me it was important to work at my relationship with my family and to be there for my kids, anything else would have been second best to me.

We are all different though, have different values, goals, etc.

Are you serious? I am speechless! Do you not think children deserve to hear that they are so valuable that a parent has chosen to spend time focussing on their well being and happiness whatever the gender of the child or parent!

I must say that it has never crossed my mind as a sahm that I need to set a role model of achievement in the educational or economic sense to any of my 3 kids (2 dds and 1ds). They know I am highly intelligent and educated and had a successful career (although more in terms of personally and community fulfilling as opposed to financially rewarding). Quite likely I will go back to that career at some point but see more value now in supporting my children. I suppose that's because I am confident and secure in my achievementsand choices, as i hope all my dc will be.

Susan- I don't think anybody has said being a SAHM is a choice where neither of you earns enough to support the other. Just how would that work ? you could be forced into being a SAHM through unemployment however.

As far as education goes, wether a woman decides to use her degree is surely her own business and not for others to speculate about her example to her children. You can't possibly know the reason behind everything another does..Carry one doing whatever works for your family and live and let live.

An education is more than mere vocational training. It makes you a better parent, a better citizen and a better member of society. Life is also richer and more enjoyable when you understand it on more levels. Everyone should be educated to their full potential. Not being economically active does not mean that potential is wasted. Every time a SAHM mum votes, volunteers, influences her children's development or participates the debates of the day her education is used.

I struggle a bit with the 'all choices are equally valid' argument. For most people, not doing paid work isn't a feasible option. Most of us, in a capitalist society, need to earn money in order to support ourselves and our families, and most families these days need two earners in order to make ends meet.

It's obviously not my place to pronounce about how any individual family organises itself - I think the important thing is that all children, of whatever sex, grow up expecting that they will need to support themselves, and that finding yourself in a position where you don't have to do that is pretty unlikely for the vast majority of people.

susannah if you marry a high earning partner you can afford the time and fees to study politics or whatever for it's own sake...

No six figure salaries here, but I always tell the DDs I'm very lucky DH earns enough for me not to have to work and very unlucky at the lack of child care, healthy Grandparents to make working anything, but really difficult.

I although I am a wohm I have a lot of respect for most of my sahm friends, mainly because I know how rubbish I would be at it and I take my hat off to them.

However, I think here is some naivety amongst some sahms on this thread.

Firstly to say it is a choice is a little disingenuous. It is only a choice if you have a husband who earns enough to support you, surely? I am the main breadwinner therefore I cannot sah, and I'm not sure I'd want to.

Also, I agree in theory with the noble idea of education as an end in itself, but this take on education is strongest amongst people aged 30+ who benefitted from free or cheap higher education. Now with unemployment + higher and higher tuition fees, uni really has to pay. The idea of someone studying politics/classics/history etc just because they enjoy it are numbered sadly.

I really disagree with your premise. It assumes that the main worth an individual has is through paid employment. Sahm's don't need to justify their choices as their choices are equally valid. Why is nurturing your family somehow of less value than working for a megacorp? I believe feminism is about choices, not dictating what lifestyle other women should have. I am not a sahm by the way.

Maybe the high earning man DD meets will give up work to be at home. Or maybe they'll get a nanny?

I think as pp says its about choice, enabling choice and deciding what's best for your family. Generally working hard and education gives you a bit more choice. I think you may be over thinking the DDs view.