Justifying long term SAHM to DDs?

Where's the feminist analysis here? If 95% of SAHP are women this is obviously going to set the example to young girls and boys that it's the wives who stop work to look after kids. A woman very conscious of feminist thinking will surely want to analyse very carefully why and if she wants to pause her career for 5/10 years?

So why is your problem only with your mum? The fact your dad also had a career is an afterthought - that's what men do, but if women do it they do it at the expense of being 'a good mother'?

Exactly.

Don't see how slagging SAHMs off helps though.

I always find there is a bit of necessity dressed up as virtue on these threads. I hope when DD grows up she will be able to make her choices without so much dissection, discussion and general fretting. I chose to go back to work as I need the mental stimulation. In fact I would happily have gone back when DD was 3 or 4 months, but felt I had to stay off longer due to the paid maternity (she is v.outgoing and positively enjoys childcare, which helps).

My DM gave up a successful business to bring up my DSis and me. It was definitely the right choice for her, but she has supported what I have done (it probably helps that I'm in the same profession as her). She retrained successfully when DSis and I were primary age.

OP, I think if you are happy with your life and the choices you made and are positive about friends and family who made different ones, your DDs are getting a good message.

Being a sahm rather than working is better for my family, I think this is usually what people mean.

Quite and often there will be an element of 'values' in that decision, most obviously the relative value people attach to family time vs money.

For other people to brand that value-driven decision-making bogus is so rude.

Stealth. Exactly. And it looks like the same views are being perpetuated for yet another generation.

Fideline

Being a sahm rather than working is better for my family, I think this is usually what people mean.

JimmyCorkhill

This is us too, not many of us about anymore, so I'm told.

"barrackobana Mon 19-May-14 16:52:46

DM was your typical career woman, out before we left for school and not back till 7.30pm sometimes 9pm everyday. She had a good career but i hated the fact she was never in and I had to take on the role of cooking for the family and helping younger db and dsis with home work, DF was in an equally high powered job."

So why is your problem only with your mum? The fact your dad also had a career is an afterthought - that's what men do, but if women do it they do it at the expense of being 'a good mother'?

not sure.

90% of the time I am happy, which is not bad.

But occasionally I get the rage and want to throw plates !!!

Its only possible to choose not to work by either finding a high earning partner or living off state benefits (be it full benefits or top ups). Neither which i'd encourage either a DD or DS to do.

I'm a SAHM with a low/mid earning partner (£30,000) and we don't claim benefits (apart from child benefit). He actually earns less than I did before leaving work. We live in an expensive city and have no family support. We just prioritise my choice to stay at home over new cars/holidays/clothes/nights out etc. I have looked at the finances and all I would achieve if I returned to work is to pay for the childcare. I didn't love my job. DH loves his. We're both happy.

Susannah you mentioned a husband supporting a SAHM to not work but I see DH and me as a team as someone upthread said. We support each other. They're his kids too. He's been able to become self employed and work unusual hours because of me. He's thriving.

I don't judge anyone's choice to work or be at home because I'm happy with my choice. What others do does not affect my day to day life.

Well you seem to be saying there Herc that anyone who cannot afford two sets of FT pre-school childcare, 'chose' not to earn enough. Which is an incredibly snotty assertion.

But it really pisses me off when people who SAH because of finances dress it up as a moral good. Because it isn't. It's an economic choice or a lifestyle choice but it is no better than working.

And this ^ is a nonsense because a) such decisions are usually multi-factoral so 'dressing up' doesn't come into it and, b) A great many people there is an advantage to home-based care in the early years, feel it is the best choice for their child (not necessarily every child) and feels some form of values/quality/duty based pull towards that option and rearrange their lives accordingly. The fact that you don't feel the same doesn't make it ok to disparage other people's priorities and value systems.

Brave - it sounds like you have a really good balance. :)

I am a long term SAHM of sorts (only work 10 hrs a week outside the home).

I don't usually feel the need to justify my choices to anyone, but have wondered if my DSs will think women 'should' do all the housework.

I have told them that if I were to work full time, someone else would have to do the shopping/cooking/cleaning/picking them up from school/helping them with homework etc.

They are also very appreciative of me always being there for plays/sports days/dealing with problems and worries they have.

but yes, there is a nagging voice in my head some times. Hence the part time job, which is a stepping stone to working a bit more outside the home now that the boys are getting bigger.

I love the bit of my job which is looking after them, including cooking, but i loathe the endless washing and cleaning.

Being a sahm does not mean I don't value education, financial independence (for women especially) and does not mean I'm a 'lazy slacker' and submissive. I'm none of those things. Infact, I'm a great advocate of feminism and so is my dh.

Quite. Some people have very narrow lives and/or a complete lack of imagination.

fide not at all. But it really pisses me off when people who SAH because of finances dress it up as a moral good. Because it isn't. It's an economic choice or a lifestyle choice but it is no better than working. Unless the person working HATES it. The OP is about the messages we give our kids. I think the message that career choice can have long reaching implications is a good one to get across (my kids are unlikely to choose lucrative careers, and I support them in that but I have made damn sure they realise what the possible consequences might be). Anyone who gives a child the message that women should stay at home because that's what they do is doing everyone else a disservice.

Here here beepingbeep!
I am a sahm due to various circumstances. Will that affect my dd. No I don't think so. I hope I've bought up a daughter that knows her own mind ( as I do) and is confident to make choices as and when she needs to. I will support her choices as much as I can.

For what it's worth, I think some people just over think things. There are all sorts of influences on a child's life. Are they influenced by all of them? I really don't think so.

People I work with often ask me what I do about my kids. The women generally ask because they actually want to know, they are either interested in my kids, or interested in ideas for how they might make their lives work. Some of the men are also interested in ideas. But most of them do so from the perspective that I shouldn't be working, my place is with my kids. It's very sad. I'd like it if my girls never had to go through that sort of quizzing. I'd like it if my son never asked such a stupid question.

choose for themselves if they want to follow the sort of career path that might mean they can't afford childcare and thus have to stop work

Whoa. Catty much?

Beepin if you can't afford two sets of childcare, then that's what you should tell your kids (also, obviously, that you like them! ). Then if you have DDs they can choose for themselves if they want to follow the sort of career path that might mean they can't afford childcare and thus have to stop work (which is fine, and certainly as valid a choice as someone doing a job they don't love just to earn money. Probably more valid). What would be un constructive would be letting your kids get the idea that staying at home is what women should do. women can do anything they want, if they are lucky enough to be in a position to have choices.

Like I said - it's none of my business, and I don't care, what choices people make. I just hope that the next generation will understand that people should have choice and that staying home isn't what women should do just because they are women.

me being at home with them while they're small

Ok, I've just skimmed the thread.

I'm sick to fucking death of how sahm's are berated, undervalued and stereotyped.

I can not fucking afford two sets of childcare. I like being at home with my dc. Being with them while they're small is what dh and I have chosen to be best of us as a family.

Being a sahm does not mean I don't value education, financial independence (for women especially) and does not mean I'm a 'lazy slacker' and submissive. I'm none of those things. Infact, I'm a great advocate of feminism and so is my dh.

People assume too much.

Rant over.

I know many, many families where both parents earn relatively low incomes: usually mum works evenings, dad works days or vice versa.

I gave two degrees, one is a distinction, many colleagues are well educated.

We often sit at work at the weekend talking about how our children miss us or constantly ask why we have work. The answer is that we need the money.

Interesting question. I have always worked FT. I'm the sort of high earner that is mentioned in the OP. My DH no longer works full time although he did until after DC3 was born. He took an early retirement package when it was offered because it was becoming increasingly difficult to juggle the needs of our kids (who all do extensive extra curricular stuff - and we don't live in London we live somewhere ridiculous, so any after school activity necessarily involves taxi of mum and dad) with the fact that we were both doing jobs that could have longish hours, and my job involves a lot of international travel. Bizarrely it was easier when they were little, by the time DC3 started primary school it was increasingly difficult. So we made that decision. People don't ask whether DH is setting DS a bad example. They don't assume I'm setting the DDs a good example.

I actually think that education is a Good Thing in and of itself, regardless of any financial reward it may lead to. So there's that. But I also feel very strongly that SAHM of DSs need to be very careful about the messages they give to their sons, not so much their daughters, about the possibilities for womens' roles in society. So many men grow up thinking that women are second best in the achievement and employment stakes, and that if a sacrifice (of a career) has to be made, it should naturally be the woman who makes it. That there are such things as 'womens' jobs' and 'mens' jobs' and that womens' careers are both less lucrative and less valuable than mens'. Comments such as 'I didn't have children so that I could get someone else to raise them on my behalf' are inflammatory, rude and generally indicative of a person who is justifying what was perhaps not a choice (you don't generally get the higher earner saying things like that).

I don't really care who stays at home, or if anyone stays at home. I do care that the next generation - the people with whom my DDs may end up working - are not brought up to think that a womans' place is automatically in the home.

HappyummyOfOne

I disagree, know lots of people who work, pay tax have low income and receive no benefit of any kind.
We ourselves did ths for years before tax credits came into existence.
No doubt we will do it again when they are no longer.
Its not what you earn but what you spend.
I learnt from Mr McCawber

Hear hear juneau

I'm a snob about proper spoken English - yes - and I value it as a tool that enables people to have choices in life. If you speak poorly you will be forever excluded from many of the well-paid jobs. So IMO making sure that my DC learn to speak properly is a priority.