Justifying long term SAHM to DDs?

Bill

I don't think workers in care homes are pseudo mothers or daughters.
You see when children are in cc they are being raised by a substitute mother, if you are lucky.
Some people don't want this and prefer to do it themselves.
I think the term in childcare is in loco parentis.
In charge of parenting in the absence of the parents.

Stealth, am sure they do but they get no choice as they are male. Am sure all the SAHMs would say "of course you can quit work and stay home honey" not

As for "pseudo mother", i take it then every SAHP never uses a babysitter, never leaves their children with family or lets their child attend school.

If the man suddenly decided to leave then theres the option of benefits or working as most wont have savings enough to last for years. First moments and being near them go out of the window when food needs putting on the table.

Beeping beep, agree with you, Herc, totally disagree with you. Each woman should make her own choice about what is best for her family, you seen to think women should make choices for the benefit of your ideology. That is not what my feminism tells me and tbh that type of 'telling everyone else how to live their life' feminism is exactly what has turned so many women I know off feminism

beeping, does your OH not want to to see their every milestone, educate them, be near them?

Are workers in care homes pseudo daughters?

Pseudo mother??? Yeah. Right. I think you're the one who needs that grip, to be honest.

MN, please excuse typos. This posters has totally got on my chebs!!

Look Herc, I don't sah because it's the woman's role to do so. The main reason I sah is because I want to be with my dc while they're very young/under five. (to see their every milestone, bf full term, educate them, be near them)-under 5.

The second and third respectively, are logistics and the extortionate cost of childcare. Both of which I & dh feel are not worth uprooting our children's infancy for - ie. paying someone else to be a pseudo mother and having to move child from pillar to post.

You come across as rather pretentious. You must live with blinkers on if you think everyone's life journey should/can take the same path as the next person. Humans are not bloody robots ffs. You seem to think those who take a different stance on life to you are obviously lacking a moral compass. What a presumptuous and narrow minded view to take.

I am a low earner as a result of an undercurrent of sexism, thrust upon me during my upbringing and as result of having fewer opportunities come my way because of my sex and my parents lack of input in my education and or realising my potential, if you want to know the truth.

It's only since moving abroad & then later becoming a mother that I've realised all that's been stacked up against me, the enormity of the role sexism and patriarchy has played in my life and wider society, and that it's up to me be the best I want to/can be. I plan to start my career when ds2 enters primary, so I'm currently studying to primarily fulfill my personal goals and then my professional ones - for myself and for my sons.

Here's a >grip< for you.

sorry - gender/economic lottery

If women told their kids 'I have to stay at home because the work I do isn't valued as highly as the work a man does by society even though it is at least as valuable - maybe more' then we would have a generation coming through who understood the implications of entrenched sexism.

What about teaching pride in whatever work you find yourself doing at any given moment, paid or unpaid?

Disturbing to say to daughters 'I lost the gender lottery and so my booby prize/punishment is to spend time with you'.

Yes, which reminds me, where on earth is scottishmummy? Never used to be a thread like this without her on it!

You do realise that while women volunteer to stay at home and be shafted and pretend to themselves and everyone else that this is because it's the right thing to do rather than the necessary thing, the pay gap will never close

I think that someone are railroaded into that decision, some chose it positively and there isn't a clear boundary between the two.

I think having A parent at home for a few short years can be valuable to some children and families and we need to stop denigrating it as an option and instead worry about evening up the gender balance across SAHPing, FT and PT work.

well you might not have wanted to start a bun fight op, but it seems you have.

Its just one of those subjects, I'm afraid.

Anyone who says or implies that staying at home 'is what women do' is an idiot or a neanderthal.

Men still on average outearn women. THAT is a scandal requiring feminist analysis.

A person on an average wage CANNOT, post tax, afford two FT nursery places without making a loss. THAT is a scandal requiring several types of analysis.

In the current economic climate, few families who want home care for a few years, can afford to lose the higher of the two wages. THAT is worthy of feminist analysis.

90something % of Lone Parents are female. THAT requires feminist anaysis.

I can't remember what the figures are for NRPs paying no child support, but that is yet another scandal requiring feminist analysis.

On the other hand, this constant derision of women making decisions against the backdrop of all the above, is one of the least feminist-inspired spectacles I can imagine.

The thing is a lot of part time work is shift work which can fit well around children.

So yes you could be SAHM and yet work evenings /night/weekends. I am there fir assemblies, sports days although I may fall
Asleep!

What strikes me is how much childcare wc men do - and in fact my DP is alone with them at weekends and some evenings during the week. He is responsible fur cooking, housework, homework and refereeing.

These discussions always seem framed by the 'high powered' career as if that is the only work of value. Yet so many traditional wc jobs are extremely valuable and can bring alot of satisfaction and needed income.

I saw my mum's life as a SAHM. It made me determined to get a good education, a good job and be as financially independent as possible. It also fuels my decision to go back to work when we have a baby. Her life was comfortable and my father has always been generous, but she did not seem at all fulfilled by it and it is not what I want for myself.

I agree with juneau too. I'm also a sahm, degree educated, worked for the decade prior to having dc, with a high earning husband who agrees with me staying at home to raise the dc.

I tell my sons and daughter all about the jobs I used to do before having them, about university, and that I choose to stay home with them, but many other mums choose to do a job, that sometimes dads stay home to look after their children, and sometimes both work and the child goes to nursery to be looked after. I am never critical of any of the above choices.

I am a feminist, and my husband and I demonstrate the equality in our relationship to our children every single day. My husband will not tolerate sexism, is very respectful of me, and all women, and goes out of his way to demonstrate this to the children. He is very involved with housework and childcare when he is here. We have completely shared finances.

However, having said all that ^ I will stress, to my daughter in particular, the importance of financial independence. I have a lot of savings in my name, and would get an very good financial settlement were dh to (god forbid) die/walk out on us tomorrow. It worries me how many women will become sahm without a financial plan in place in the event of of a separation, or even without the legal protection of marriage.

I didn't get that from what you said. It's what I've been arguing SAHMs should strive to avoid. So long as they do, I don't care whether they work or not. But those people in this thread pretending staying at home is a moral good are doing everyone else, and al our kids, a disservice.

You do realise that while women volunteer to stay at home and be shafted and pretend to themselves and everyone else that this is because it's the right thing to do rather than the necessary thing, the pay gap will never close. If women told their kids 'I have to stay at home because the work I do isn't valued as highly as the work a man does by society even though it is at least as valuable - maybe more' then we would have a generation coming through who understood the implications of entrenched sexism. As it is, we seem to have another generation coming through who mainly will think it's fine. That might not worry you. But I have two daughters and it worries me.

Well comments like I hated the fact my mother wasn;t there when I came in from school. My dad also had a high-flying job. Kind of promotes the assumption that it's out of sorts for a woman to have a career.

What's indefensible - and damaging to society as a whole, as well as to your own kids, is bringing them up with the idea that women 'should' stay at home because that's what women do.

How do you get to there from what I said?

Flat there's a glaring absence of feminist thinking in this thread, sadly. For me, it's not about having to pause my career - it's about my girls possibly having to pause theirs. Like it or not.

A woman very conscious of feminist thinking will surely want to analyse very carefully why and if she wants to pause her career for 5/10 years?

Yes but she might decide, after consideration, that she does so anyway.

Until we have entirely closed the pay gap there will always be a slant on that choice.

But it also depends whether you see the SAHP (often the woman as you say) as the lucky one with the best deal, or the career person.

You see, I am not sure I got the worst deal as a SAHP.

If it is through choice, and you enjoy it, surely it is a valid choice even from a feminist point of view?

Only if women stay at home because they are bullied into it, and unhappy, is it an issue…?

I didn't (or was that a general comment)

What's rude is labelling the choice as being family time v money.

What's indefensible - and damaging to society as a whole, as well as to your own kids, is bringing them up with the idea that women 'should' stay at home because that's what women do.

The job I do has a certain amount of social value, as does the job that DH did and still does on a more freelance basis. Not as much as being a nurse or a dentist, but not negligable either. It benefits society that we work. If we successfully achieve in our aim of installing the belief in our kids that nobody 'has' to stay at home for anything other than reasons stemming from their own choice (nothing to do with the role of women) or adverse financial circumstances, then that will have benefitted society too. Because there will be at least one man not asking stupid arse questions about what his female colleagues do about their kids (in disapproving tones) and at least two women who know to give such stupid arse questions the shortest of shrifts.