Justifying long term SAHM to DDs?

Obviously carers, volunteering in all its forms, aiding in the family business, studying (for pleasure or future career) all count as doing something.

Well personally I cannot think of a SAHM with over-3s who isn't doing at least one of these.

Yes, there are many on here bleating about the high morals they have

Really? Where?

Surely it is more a case of SAHMs defending themselves by insisting that they aren't lazy/vapid/thick/avaricious/oppressed and asserting that there is a good child-centred reason for their choice which reflects their own priorities and views on EY care?

A two yr old will have a different view to a 14 yr old -of course they will.

The OP asked specifically about 'long term sahm'; that is something worth discussing more than the tired old argument of "costa drinking lazy arse" vs "child abandonment (child to nursery)" imo.

At what point does a sahm become a 'housewife'? At what age is it a better example to be doing something other than housewife and mother?

Obviously carers, volunteering in all its forms, aiding in the family business, studying (for pleasure or future career) all count as doing something.

But what about those who are still SAHMs with children at secondary school? What example does that set daughters or sons?

I am value driven and child centred. I am also a working Mum. Yes, there are many on here bleating about the high morals they have in choosing not to work.

complete opposite ?

In what way is it a complete opposite?

So you do agree a SAHM could be a positive female role model to a younger child then? Could you specify where the cut-off point comes?

handcream

I imagine you are spot on in the corporate world, I know nothing of this at all.
Having neither wanted to or likely to work in that environment it wouldn't bother me in the slightest.
I think most other long term sahms wouldn't be looking for this type of work, as they probably wouldn't have left it.

I am very fortunate that I have kept well informed and worked for dh in the same industry I worked, have continued to network and my dhs clients prefer to deal with me.
I have become highly qualified and performed several roles at operational and strategical level whilst being a sahm.
I haven't earned anything but I enjoy it. I don't have an official title or roles or responsibilities but I'm nobodies numpty.

Oh my fucking god... Pot kettle. And I don't think I was slagging off, simply stating a fact.

How the fuck am I not a positive female role model? Because I'm not employed? Because I like the main caregiver?

infact why should i give a toss what some random condescending Queen Bee on mn thinks.

I'm a bit confused by this idea of SAHMing as a 'moral thing' that you keep quoting herc, unless you mean 'values driven, child-centred' which is different.

I mentioned 14 because trying to explain to a stroppy teenager that you must get an education and get qualifications in order to support themselves then sees the person in front of them doing the complete opposite.

Actually millions of people work in the corporate world, my company employs over 120,000.

Millions isn't everyone. Remarks about five years out being barmy are never prefaced by 'in certain careers' or 'in finance'. They are just announced as a universal truth. And actually, if you are a call-centre team leader, or an osteopath, or a translator or a TV producer or a hairdresser your reality and prospects might be quite different.

I haven't RTFT but my Mum was a SAHM and it never occurred to me to follow that path. I've had a great career and last year, at 40yo had DD1. I'm sorely tempted to become a SAHM because of the value I can add to the household beyond a wage (which was always slightly higher than DHs) but I'm not sure we are ready to cut our cloth quite that much yet. My career feels so insignificant to me now but I'm sure I'll feel differently again when I return.

Should be honest. Not were honest.

No, I most definitely did not. I suggested that they were honest as opposed to dishonest. If someone is a SAHM because of economic issues then they should be honest about that. Not make a virtue out of necessity which then makes those who aren't in the same economic bind unvirtuous by definition AND may serve to perpetuate the conditions which crest the economic bind in the first place. Until men care about these issues too nothing will change. If we bring up our sons to think that actually, women want to stay at home, unless they are unnatural, then there will never be sufficient demand for change.

And yes, being a SAHM is not a good role model for a son IF you pretend that it's the moral thing to do. Because it isn't. Dishonesty is never moral. If you explain that some women choose to work and you can afford not to, fine. If you also point out that some men choose not to, too. If you explain that you can't afford to work because of the impact entrenched sexism in the workplace has on relative salaries, if that's the case (it often isn't) even better. Because then your son might remember that when he grows up. And he might want to be part of the solution not part of the problem. If you tell him that staying at home is the moral thing to do and that anyone who doesn't is condemning their kids to a lifetime of pseudo mothers then you are the worst role model there could possibly be.

I a not sure that a SAHM to a daughter of say 14 is a positive role model. Sorry, but I don't.

Where did a 14 year old daughter suddenly spring from? And it very much depends on the circs surely?

I hate these discussions that just become women beating other women for their choices. Nobody asks men the same questions.

Very true

Actually millions of people work in the corporate world, my company employs over 120,000.

I a not sure that a SAHM to a daughter of say 14 is a positive role model. Sorry, but I don't.

I haven't noticed anyone referring to SAHMs as unemployed

Someone did.

I wouldn't regard anyone who earns money working from inside her home, whether as a freelancer or employed, as a SAHM either

I meant it more as an example of a flexible career that could withstand a break or as a way of returning to work after a period of SAHMing

I haven't suggested that SAHMs denigrate their roles.

Yes you did.

in particular they ensure that their sons get the benefit of some positive female role models

So a SAHM isn't a positive female role model?! Really?

They're making the best choice for them, in their current situation (I think, I hope).

If we want to talk about how mothers are disadvantaged in the workplace, how the lion's share of the parental duties falls to women, how the pay gap affects women - then we should talk about that.

Rather than berating women for either: Using childcare, or being a sahm. I hate these discussions that just become women beating other women for their choices. Nobody asks men the same questions.

Here, I can fight my corner tbh. It actually isn't always about money. It's about keeping your independence. And relying on someone else to support you when the divorce rate is 50 percent and higher when couples live together is something to think very carefully about.

You only have to look at the relationship board to see staying together isn't that easy.

And some posters saying you can always go on benefits if you split is even more worrying

Who here has even mentioned career ladders? That's a whole different ball game.

To me 30k isn't a low income, but I can see how to some it is.

Absolutely, but why could the poster not acknowledge that to some it's a joint income?

sabrina lots of people aren't making a choice. They have to stay home because of the income gap. They might choose differently - perhaps to work PT - if the economics worked out. And pretending this isn't true perpetuates the attitudes in society that allow the income gap to remain.

The DM wants all women to stay at home and to pretend they are moral champions.

However you are naive if you think it also doesn't matter in the corporate world.

Most people do not work in the corporate world.

Career breaks are largely irrelevant to creative careers or entrepreneurs. If you are a trained professional in education or medicine, there are jobs about and procedures/courses for returners (who are welcomed with open arms usually).

What I do depends on a blend of skill, experience, specialist quals and contacts. It's pretty niche, I was fine.

All manner of people have a trade or profession that lends itself to SE.

But still we get blanket statements about career ladders and the danger of breaks etc.