Justifying long term SAHM to DDs?

Yes, this is utterly at the heart of it as asked above - whey is it just because you don't have a penis you sacrifice your all on the altar of caring for his children, his parents, his house? What is so special about men that women serve them and women get to be the one lumbered at home?

You obviously skimmed over my point about all children, SN or not, having 2 parents - plainly that did not fit your agenda, as for some odd reason of your own you want to paint me as oblivious and uncaring about people with SN.

You know nothing about me, so back off with your ignorant and offensive assumptions.

Oh missed this.

Because you seem to think DC/people with SEN/disabilities (and their families) are somehow 'other' and separate and that the mainstream debate doesn't/shouldn't spply to us.

We are just people/parents/children like anyone else. Working patterns and practices should be inclusive.

What an odd question Fideline, why would you ask that?

YY @ capsium

You're not a Ukipper are you ithaka?

I don't think as a SAHP, who is content with being so, I am that unusual either.

And the thing about 'we have all acknowledged the challenges of SN children' is that it pigeon holes SAHPs of children with SNs as 'exceptions' to the rules. I have had enough of this with my DC. If society was more inclusive generally, made reasonable adjustments for differing needs, which everybody has, we need not be treated as exceptions.

My DC really is not that unusual. There were some 'developmental delays', but not uncommon ones, and some areas where he was far ahead if his peers. It balanced out. The spikiness has evened out, there has been a huge progression.

If early education was different, maybe less early, we might not have had the same difficulties.

necessarily^

I was trying to differntiate the (handful of) hardliners from the mere evangelists ithaka and was in any case being tongue in cheek.

And in my case it was because 'dad' had cracked under the pressure and taken himself off on a casino tour to gamble away his half off the divorce, since you ask. Not an uncommon story either (dads of SN child not coping and/or divorce, that is, not necesarrily gambling ).

You cannot generalise or legislate for the breadth of human experience particularly as good luck often breeds good luck and vice versa.

ithaka I think the answer to your question is that certain sectors, often male dominated, earn more and that flexible, family friendly, working practices, as an employee, in these well remunerated sectors, are rare.

Both DH and myself moved away from extended family also, so this was also a factor, for us. Many working parents can fall back on family help.

Tbh I never had the drive to work for a company as demanding as one if the companies DH worked for, for a while. Just looking at the medical questionnaires they had to fill out for their yearly medical, had me reeling (everything from diet to posture was scrutinised). He's been called up whilst we've been on holiday (the time in the 90s skiing was interesting when he was asked about contactivity).

I was glad to have the 'lesser' career path.

I don't think phrases like WOHM militants help anyone. I think everyone on this thread has acknowledged the challenges of SN children - haven't they? I hope so.

All children have 2 parents, SN or not. So why is it always the mum who has to give up work/go freelance/change her life to fit? Usually the answer is because the dad earns more. Why is this, do we think?

Re. the SEN issue - five (5!) DC from our circle have at various points over the years been entirely without school places, usually during the statementing process, normally for a term or two, but one young chap we know lost almost five terms (!) of education while statementing happened than slow grind through tribunal. Even more frequent are the PT attendance patterns or slow phased integrations - i've just tried to count the families I know who have experienced this and given up, yet i'd never heard of it until my DC had an autism diagnosis. It's a different universe (with rare and expensive childcare).

I somethimes forget now that all this ^ was what forced me into freelancing, because DC have progressed and I'm really happy work-wise, but there literally was no other choice. And we're really not a rarity.

Yet I really get the feeling that the WOHMing militants don't believe in the existence of families like mine.

Agree with Retro. I earn a pretty decent wage, as does my husband, but it is not nearly enough to put two kids to private school and have money to do other things.

Working parents come with many different income levels!

I do see the point about the paying of fees meaning that there is far less parent involvement though. I'd have been really hacked off if the nursery/after school club (which I paid for) asked me to give my time to help them out - whereas I am more inclined to help out at school because I am not paying for the service (iyswim).

Jane, the Private schools in our area were not preferable in terms of what they could offer. When you are faced with SEN, Statements, 1 to 1 support etc, things get more complicated.

In your circles Jane.

I am surrounded by working mothers,not one can afford private education and all use state(even the more wealthy ones).Interestingly the friends I have who do use private have a sahp. They either have wealth aside from work or are mortgage/rent free due to life pre-dc.

The private schools near us have many parents unable to keep fees going bailing into state.When you consider that fees for one are well over the cost of a year's mortgage payments it's hardly surprising.

It's clear several,posters on MN not only have a very limited view of what many mothers actually want they actually have no idea of reality for the majority as regards childcare,work and schooling.

There is sa private/state school difference though. State schools have more parents coming in to help. Women who work are more likely to be able to afford to pay school fees and those schools have enough teachers and support without needing parents coming in. I almost pay in part to ensure the school can get on with it.

Scarlett yes, now sorted, thankfully.

It was difficult to negotiate at the time though. My DC had started school, had a Statutory assessment, received Statement, with funding, you'd think it would be sorted. However there was 'flexible' schooling ie. part time for the first year and all the 'required' 'volunteering'. I put up with it for a time because after sorting out all the appointments, statutory assessment, Statement etc I could not face tackling this as well for a while. I ended up tackling one thing at a time as my DC progressed. This was also made easier by the fact I did volunteer and I could observe how he coped, which was well. I always took groups, was not 1 to 1 with my DC or a passive observer, which meant I had ammunition, so to speak ( he had funding for 1 to 1)

Regarding not seeing what the WOHPs do in terms of volunteering and them not seeing what the SAHPs do, I think this can be true. I refused a lot of the PTA events, which did not go down well with some, but I really felt like I did enough.

It is really crappy how the school put on you like they did, they do really have you over a barrel due to the worry that your child will miss out if you don't. Are things better now? I hope so.

Another thing I've noticed about volunteering at school stuff - the working parents seem to think not many sahp volunteer, and the sahp believe the opposite. In the main, the type of volunteering each does tends to be different, so one lot rarely sees the other lot iyswim.

As working parents, myself and my husband have been on the school council, contacted companies for freebies for fete prizes, various organisational things and setting up/taking down tents etc for fetes. This sort of thing we can fit around work; there has usually been a distinct lack of sahp involved in those 'out of hours' roles.

What we don't see or notice, is the sahp who helps on the school trips, or walks the kids up to swimming, listens to my children read at school, is actually running the stall that we got the prizes for, who helped facilitate the sports day or play I am watching etc etc.

I'm generalising obviously, but I wonder if it is as simple as that - just not noticing the other stuff getting done, because we don't physically see it getting done.

^and it is often the mothers that have to pick up the pieces.

Scarlett yes, that can be the case.

However our problems were more to do with some staff at school staff not wanting to take responsibility for looking after my DC on trips / swimming or utilising the allocated TA, fully funded through my DC's Statement, elsewhere. They always wanted more volunteers, stupidly I was an easy target, as they would use my DC's SEN as an excuse, saying certain activities were too much of a risk for my DC to participate in, without me there. This is with a Statement of SEN, with enough funding to cover 1 to 1.

The one good thing to come out of the new legislation IMO is that schools have to account for how they have allocated resource, through Provision Mapping, before the apply for top up funding. Previously this type of accountability, for how resource was being utilised, just was not there.

IMO some within the teaching profession, just do not seem to think they should have to deal with, even comparatively mild, SEN.

It is only since being on mn that I have learned just how under-resourced and under-funded SN help and access is.

It is shocking that I got to nearly 40 and didn't know, that's how much it's not discussed and brushed under the carpet. I honestly never realised how hard people have to fight for the basics, and how little respite there is.

Scottishmummy, you misunderstand, or chose to misunderstand me. If men had made some of the same vitriolic comments I would have said the same thing.

I worked before the Dcs and then was a SAHM for 11 years before starting work again once DD4 was in full time school. In that context DDs have seen me more at home than at at work. The eldest desires at this point in time is to become a doctor whilst DD4 wants to be a mum. I have heard myself several time telling her "you know darling, you can be a mum AND something else too." And them I am thinking that there would be no shame for her to just be a mum if that was actually all she wanted to be. I hope with all my heart that both my girls will be happy, whatever the path they choose. I will encourage all my DCs, boys and girls to further their education as much as they can and acquire a skill of some sort but ultimately it will be up to them to decide how to live their adult lives.

I do think SNs can create situations where mothers often do end up giving up working. This is a feminist issue, as well as an educational one.

YYY.

National disgrace, not discussed enough.