Justifying long term SAHM to DDs?

retro I do believe that if more men took the choice to stay at home, there would be no more treating a SAHP like shit.

And why don't they? As you say, not everyone is ambitious.

And why are all the positions of power taken up by men? Let's please not say it's biology, and the magic penis makes them better suited to deciding how the world is run.

It can only be a gender bias, can't it?

Imagine if we were saying that the reason why white people or able bodied people run the world, was because black people or disabled people simply don't want to be mithered with it all.

cap no one is saying all women have to be on the front line. Certainly most men are not.

But it is extraordinary that the small-ish group of people who do make all the macro decisions are nearly all men. It can't be any good for any of us.

All actions are conceived in people's imaginations. It is people's ideas we want to change. Anyone, SAHP or WOHP can do this. Our worth is more than what we do, or don't do, to earn money.

So what do you want Word? Do we all have to fight on the front line?

By the way I do take responsibility, I have the ability to respond. My voice has been heard over some issues locally. I have offered practical help to those in my vicinity.

I didn't say good things just happen, I said good things will happen. The implication being if you believe in them and act on your belief, that is have the courage of your convictions. Believe me, although you might not realise it to look at me, I am no pushover...

Telling people they can be only heard once they have a position of power is ill advised IMO. Don't wait, I say. Start now, with the small things and the rest comes.

Sorry but many of us don't want high powered roles.For many of us a lifestyle that suits us as a family and benefits our children is a priority.

I don't see why SAHMs should be treated like shit,have to justify their choices and have a life they don't want because a few want the king seat at the board table.

Sorry capsium but that is just a cop out, that lets you off any resonsibility.

Good things don't just happen. Justice doesn't just happen.

Every week in the UK two women are murdered by their partners of their ex partners. More women were killed last year as a result of male violnece, than troops in Afganistan.

This isn't just going to go away when the time is right!

Omg the wiping bottoms post.

I have an Eng/early years degree, dp has 2 sciencey/ maths degrees how exactly would leaving our children in a nursery with lower educated/ younger staff benefit my dc?Just how?How would one of us as a sahp damage them?Just how?

It has been proved nurseries aren't getting kids school ready.

We can't afford private schools.Early years education was vital for our dc so they had their loving mum and some Outstanding pre-school sessions.The results spoke for themselves.

And as for "wiping bottoms" you do realise that is work and a career choice for many mothers.How dare you speak about jobs which can have such a big impact in such a derogatory way.

Makes me laugh that working in nurseries and care homes is great for "working mums" but not good enough for SAHMs.

Not all of us work or want to work in high flying careers in a London with nannies and private schools.Many of us want more out of life.Why do our choices have to be belittled?

TheWord It may, but it is my own, that is I thought of it.

Whether the people at the decision making table are listening or not, I am a believer that if something is right, it will happen. It has not failed me yet, but I am very patient....

I've just looked at the title of the thread and sort of skimmed through it.

The title is only in reference to females.

Why didn't the OP question how SAHD can explain it away to their ds?

Speaks volumes.

capsium that sounds like a sound bite...

But really you can speak as much as you like, til you're blue in the face, but without your presence at the decision making table, they aint listening!

Every day decisions are made that affect all our lives. What price we will pay for energy; how much benefits carers will receive; what programes will be on our television; what newsa will be reported and in which order; what our DC will learn in school; what vegetables will be available for us to buy; how our pension funds will be invested;

And I think most of us agree that those decisions are taken mostly by men.

Just because not as many men SAHP, it does not de-value the SAHP role for women.

If more men did it would it have more intrinsic value? Don't think so..

(but at least it lays bare the absolute contempt those posters feel for hands-on parents)

impatient
Surely you can see thsat the lack of women in positions of power, acting as role models for other women is a huge barrier to women.

Chicken and the egg.

Just as the lack of men staying at home is a huge barrier to men taking that role.

We're humans. We don't operate in closed boxes.

Owl I agree. The people who care for us should be loved, valued and definitely not forgotten.

Owl I think it is a neuro-linguistic programming technique designed to link the idea of SAHMing/caring with images of shit TBH. Phenomenally rude.

Do you actually know how rude and insensitive it is to carers to keep bringing up 'wiping up bottoms' or do you just not CARE

I wonder how difficult some of you would find it to leave your child in hospital whilst you went to work, or leaving your child in a residential placement whilst you could work. The reality of having or wanting to do that is actually very different to the ideal.

You don't have to be in a position of power, though, to have your voice heard, you only have to speak...

There will always be someone who puts in extra to get to the top. And that is in terms of hours.

I also think that not only for the good of society, but out of pure unadulterated self interest, we need to hear a diverse section of voices in positions of power. That one gender is effectively missing is absurd!

It's just not safe for all those voices to be so similar.

Look at the banking crisis. Everyone in banking, banking regulation and housing were singing from the exact same hymn sheet. There were no diverse voices...

And it didn't end too well.

Of course feminism is more complex than that, but we should be working towards helping those women who choose to work to succeed and have a level playing field without blaming the lack of progression on those women who choose to stay at home.
I do not believe that my decision to be a SAHM (or other SAHMs) has a consequence for feminism. I do believe that some feminists believe my decision is harmful to society.
I could equally quote studies that have shown mums going out to work is harming our children, but those studies are as flawed as the notion that SAHMs are preventing women from progressing in the workplace and that their decision has much bigger consequences.

fide I believe that as feminists we have to grapple with difficult issues as well as easy ones.

TBH Word I just don't see it that way. My own decision to SAHM for the preschool years felt at the time like the most subversive, free-thinking thing I had ever done, given my abilities, qualifications, career-aims, the norms of my peer group but most of all the expectations of me to prioritize career over all else. It didn't feel as weighty as you describe, however, as I was only in my twenties and felt there was plenty of time.

These days, my own view is that Mon-Fri office-based, city-centre, long commute, job roles are the manifestation of gendered work patterns; a template of working life that lingers from a time when men commuted to paid employment and women remained in suburban domesticity performing unpaid caring roles.

We need to be challenging those norms (which are largely unnecessary now) for both men and women. We have all been duped into joining men in the long-hours presenteeism culture and eveyone's quality of life has suffered - male or female, parents or not.

There are ways of pursuing highly-skilled, satisfying careers more flexibly and we should be demanding more of those opportunities. I appreciate the legal profession is not one of the more flexible, though.

...and there is nothing wrong with that SAHP being the mother, if they want to do it.

But there is nothing wrong with being a SAHP! It is a valid role (for those who do it wholeheartedly).

I think this is definitely an issue pomme

If we want a society where we have decent numbers of women involved in politics, the judiciary, the corporations, the banks, the media, the pension funds, the forreign offcie etc etc then the quid pro quo, may well be that more men choose to be SAHPs.

Or that working in demaning positions becomes more family freindly for both sexes (which will never happen whilst men make all the decisions).

People who are vying for a top spot at the table are the people working 18 hour days. Looking at my friends' dhs, this is what they are doing in the city to get ahead. (not huge sample I know). But the top spots at top places yep.

Everything else isn't so hard, even earning lots of £ if you can do it flexibly isn't hard.

But who really wants those hours. Because it's a big ask. Of course the people that do, go for it, they shouldn't be held back.

So the problem is not with a society where a large proportion of families have sahp (because each to their own in every family) but with a society where those sahp are overwhelmingly to the point of total majority, women?

That sahp are so overwhelmingly women means a real lack of working women role models for girls and also means the workplace is deprived of the skillset that women can bring to the board table.

Starting point for looking at this then is probably maternity leave.