TERF

Could you list the acronyms you don't understand, then?

RFFU has defined TERF and SWERF upthread.

I'm really sorry if my request seems silly or potentially derailing. It is a real, genuine request for help, to which obviously nobody is actually obliged to reply, but if anyone does use some of their time to explain any of the gender politics terms and acronyms you have the gratitude of an anonymous little poster who is actually risking quite a lot to post on this thread and on this site. Which ones? Erm, anything you think, really!
I "obviously have access to the internet" True - in a highly limited way, and tbh am more than slightly surprised this one is not firewalled.
It would not be a good idea to give any more info to possibly out myself.
The very fact that I am scared of the possible consequences for myself and those around me is a compelling reason to educate myself... as a woman and a person. Of course, the posters I appear to have annoyed would not know that. It could appear to be silly etc but I can categorically assure you that it is not.
Unfortunately we all make assumptions based on what we read coupled with our own circumstances/experiences. I apologise once more, feeling more than a little upset about this.
Perhaps I need to start a new thread? Am feeling a little put off now...
Thank you.

RFFU translated at least two.

Oh and I see you say that you haven't bothered to actually read the thread.

We are having a discussion we are not a public dictionary service. If you read the discussion you might understand the terms used.

Useryourillusion are you seriously asking that we go through this long thread and pick out any terms that we guesstimate you might not be familiar with and then patiently and helpfully write out dictionary definitions of those terms for you?!

You obviously have access to the internet, look them up yourself. It is not unusual or a problem on here to ask for a couple of definitions and most posters are happy to help. Your request is just silly though and potentially derailing.

What terms do you want defining?

Which acronyms are you having problems with? I can try and help. I fully admit I'm no expert though.

Anyone available to help???
ANYONE?

Surely I'm not the only underinformed one out here

I think Linda Evangelista said similar, but that was a photoshop comment!

I think Linda Evangelista said similar, but that was a photoshop comment!

There is a quote from Cary Grant that goes something like “Everyone wants to be Cary Grant. Even I want to be Cary Grant.” It is a comment on the role, the persona, that even the person who is “behind it” is not quite it.
I am reminded of this in the context of the ultra-feminine that seems to be required of, or even conflated with, actual womanhood. It is not enough to be a woman – it isn’t even necessary to be a woman. “Everyone wants to be a woman, even women want to be women” seems relevant. It is being taken away from us and becoming another thing we are considered inadequate to.

(The Cary Grant persona was of course an apogee of masculinity. If you try to imagine an equivalent apogee of femininity, and give the quote to her, you get maybe “Everyone wants to be Marilyn Munroe. Even I want to be Marilyn Munroe”. This is very poignant as of course the struggle to be MM was too much and ultimately lethal even for her)

I totally agree with all of that. Any questioning at all gets you labelled a TERF or transphobic, there is no middle ground.

But I do think the small number of feminists who are mocking of individual Trans people, don't help matters. It is important to focus on how transgenderism theory and activists harm women. Attacking individuals, no matter how vile they are, actually dilutes the message. After all if every single Trans person was a decent individual, transgender theory would still be harmful to women.

It's frustrating when feminists try to toady along and be seen as the nice ones, less mean than those other nasty ones. It makes no difference whether it's MRAs or transactivists. Nothing less than complete capitulation will be acceptable.

Yes, Flora, I've seen feminists say they accept transwomen as women but they don't believe women have cis privilege, and those who say they accept transwomen as women but still think female-only spaces might sometimes be necessary, or feminists who accept transwomen as women but think that being born and raised female constitutes a meaningfully different experience... they are always attacked relentlessly, and in exactly the same terms (TERF!) as women who say point blank that transwomen are men.

What is happening is not a dialogue between feminists and trans activists, nor is it a negotiation or an attempt to balance competing concerns. It is a demand that women put aside their silly and bigoted cis female perspectives and submit to this new version of womanhood and sexual politics, as defined by males.

Really and Calm....
Thanks for your answers. Essentially could you please define any term which you feel would not be known by an eight year old??
OK, so that is a huge assumption. However I am shockingly ignorant, due in most part to the patriarchy in which I live - my experience is so limited, as is my access to information.
I need to be super careful in case I out myself; I know my description of how I am trying to change attitudes and ultimately the system is peculiar but I suppose the best way of describing it is basically through influencing people in my orbit.
Hope that makes sense now.
Please help me!

This is a good blog post explaining why the word cis is so problematic.

liberationcollective.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/a-feminist-critique-of-cisgender/

Crotch - that link doesn't work either i'm afraid, it takes me to a 0 result page.

It didn't. It's CASE OF CHRISTINE GOODWIN v. THE UNITED KINGDOM

This is the link to the relevant case (hope it works, am on phone).

hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/pages/search.aspx?i=001-60596#{"itemid":["001-60596"]}

crotch that's interesting, I didn't know that. I think there is a huge misunderstanding on the intentions behind the GRA and legal protections for trans. These were clearly designed to address the classic transsexual discussed above - a small number of people living in acute pain because of their dysphoria. There has been a stealth take over by the post-modern transgender activists who have pushed this to claim that there is an official recognition of transgenderism when there has been no debate or discussion. It's incredible.

There is a twitter war going on with Sarah Ditum vs many transactivists. This touched on the issue of TERF and I was very disappointed that Sarah Ditum said she could understand the use of TERF towards people like Janice Raymond. It's frustrating when feminists try to toady along and be seen as the nice ones, less mean than those other nasty ones. It makes no difference whether it's MRAs or transactivists. Nothing less than complete capitulation will be acceptable.

Sorry, recognition.

Did you all know that the Gender Reassignment Act came into being partly because the government of the day didn't want to open the same sex marriage can of worms?

Some really great posts on this thread.

The standard transactivist follow up from tiggy's point is that transwomen are women not men and they are the most oppressed and women have "cis privilege" so, in fact, it is analogous to the situation of black people.

Of course this ignores the point vesuvia makes about what people really are but that's the conceit on which this whole ideology rests, that there is no real materiality of being a woman.

Obviously I had managed to miss that others made the same point more eloquently up thread.

The race analogy would only stand up if white people were now demanding to "identify" as black, with varying degrees of makeup or tattoos,order to be considered for protected, affirmative action positions. And those affirmative action positions were ones set up in the first place to protect black people from the worst excesses of.white oppression.

TiggyD wrote - "Black people asked to be recognised as equal to white people, including strangers, a few years ago too. Many people considered that to be a fantasy as well. And still do in some places, and that does make them bigots."

Black people seek equality with white people, but do they insist that black people are white, and only bigots refuse to agree? I am not aware of any examples.

Female feminists seek equality with men, but do they insist that female feminists are men, and only bigots refuse to agree? I am not aware of any examples.

Homosexual people seek equality with heterosexuals, but do they insist that homosexuals are heterosexuals, and only bigots refuse to agree? I am not aware of any examples.

Many transgender activists who seek equality for transwomen with female-assigned-at-birth (FAAB) women insist that MtF transsexuals and other MtF transgender people are women, and they often insist that they are biologically female too, whether or not the trans person has surgery or hormones. These activists tell society that only bigots refuse to agree. Examples of transgender activists doing this are all over the internet.