TERF

Lesbians have been told for decades, that they are not really lesbians, that they need to have sex with men. Queer theory is just another assault on lesbians.

Its fine

Lesbians I have spoken to who have had MtoF partners seem either to be lesbians who are fairly new to being a lesbian and have been married/in long relationship with a man. Or have confusions about their own gender, may have considered transitioning for example. One lesbian who had previously had 2 MtoF partners explained to me that by being with a MtoF, she felt like she was sticking two fingers up at the lesbian community she had felt excluded from.

Or they have had really abusive relationships with women and think this will be safer.

Younger lesbians are more accepting at least superfacially, because they have been told time and time again how bigoted older lesbians have been for not wanting everyone in their space. Although they may change their mind in time after experiencing quite a few hen parties in bars. Yes this is behaving like a tourist going to gawp at the lesbians, and is very disrespectful.

Sorry calmet I did get that. Didn't mean to suggest otherwise.

Do you think this is about the prevalence of women saying they are queer even though they are not actually lesbian? I can't see why any lesbian would want to have sex with MtF but I know some women who say they are lesbians and have MtF partners.

When I was a young thing, lesbians seemed generally less accepting of all-comers. I remember women complaining about tourists in lesbian bars. was there with good friend, honest, not a tourist. Now it seems anyone can be a lesbian or queer, even if they are married to a man. How did that happen?

Sorry my comment above was sarcasm.

Flora, often it is bisexual women who say this kind of stuff, rather than lesbians. The "cotton ceiling" only exists as a concept, because most lesbians won't have sex with MtoF.

calmet she's clearly targeting lesbians but what she's saying is that there can be no sexual attraction based on genitals unless you are a bigot or trans. She doesn't seem to be taking on men, either gay for not wanting sex with women or straight for not wanting sex with men.

Check out the comments on this story. Note the absence of trans activists telling these gay men to die in a fire.

www.queerty.com/trans-activist-demands-apology-from-university-for-allowing-dan-savage-to-say-tranny-making-school-unsafe-20140605

Meanwhile, on a lesbian site:

www.autostraddle.com/its-time-for-people-to-stop-using-the-social-construct-of-biological-sex-to-defend-their-transmisogyny-240284/

Look at the KoolAid comments. Can these really be from lesbians?

No of course not. How transphobic of you to suggest they might be bigots.

That is a crazy blog post. And basically says there is no such thing as a lesbian, or if you claim to be one, you are a bigot.

I sometimes think the world has gone mad.

I just saw that calmet unbelieveable entitlement!

This notion of women being afraid of lesbians or comparing that with men in changing rooms is an utter nonsense. Some self-identified feminist called Stavvers has just published a ridiculous and lesbophobic blog in which she says she no longer feels safe in women's spaces because "transmisogynists" are obsessing about her genitals.

www.donotlink.com/framed?43198

Ugh.

Just seen on another thread, someone unhappy because their transgender friend who dresses as male for work, and was wearing a suit at the time, was not allowed to use a women's changing room to try on a dress.

Possibly because the word 'reasonable' is in the sentence. Public venues must make all reasonable adaptations to enable them to be accessible. All a venue has to say is that.... building a ramp, putting in a disabled loo or whatever would be unreasonable for them to do, and they have a get out of jail free card.

there is a law but no viable method of enforcing it so its a serving suggestion more than an actual law

Flora said On your point above about not going swimming, there is a plaque in Mornington Crescent marking the site of the first women's public loo. I used to roll my eyes when I saw it but when I gave it a bit more thought, it became clear that the availability of safe space was a very important step to enable women to leave home and participate in public life. We are seriously in danger of closing off opportunities in public life for women and it is so-called feminists who are leading the charge. It's astonishing.
calmet said I read that in the UK, the law is where alcohol is served in a bar or club, there needs to be separate female and male toilets.

I'm often struck by the crossover between women's and disabled rights - no such law is enforced for accessible toilets
so yes, I've been effectively barred from several events

Thank you for your kind words, it really upset me reading that crap last night. Having voluntarily had sex with a man once does not give the world a free for all in my knickers.

I read that comment too flora can you imagine bringing a rapist home to live with your family? Let's see how far you get explaining to SS that he's not actually raped any of your children yet so it's fine. No one would dispute that is a ridiculous stance, but then women are not people with the right to autonomy so who cares.

Women need safe space from men, end of, no discussion it is a fact. It is not women's fault the blame lies solely with the men that commit violence and the very many men that condone, minimise and ignore it.

I read that in the UK, the law is where alcohol is served in a bar or club, there needs to be separate female and male toilets.

But on the plus side, it means the men will have to queue too.

Actually no-one will be happy, because the men will be annoyed about the queues and the women will be annoyed that the toilets end up covered in wee.

I don't actually have an issue with them turning a man's toilet into a gender neutral one. But the university near me is discussing turning all the toilets into gender neutral ones. Hopefully they will have to back down and leave some women's toilets.

Obviously. Women already have to queue to use the toilets, why not take a toilet away from them as well.

calmet mine already has one. They used the ladies, obviously.

But we are losing this fight at the moment. I heard a university near me are discussing whether to introduce gender neutral toilets.

"When" I think that's right. That type of trans activist does not want any separate space or compromise because that denies their desire for validation (and, in some cases, the exhibitionism / sexual fetish).