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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

TERF

437 replies

ReallyFuckingFedUp · 17/05/2014 00:11

So I have seen this expression a lot lately... and TERF gets thown out a lot when feminists are discussing things that are only capable of affecting biologically female women.

And I just can't get my head around it tbh. I don't think feminism should exclude people I think it helps everyone. I get really upset when white feminists forget about WOC or Lesbians, or other minority groups because the point of feminism is to make women's lives better. SO if there an issue that is unique to black women (for example) it is still all of our issue and should be dealt with by all feminist.

So if trans women want in on feminism why do they think can exclude the majority of women by saying we can't discuss our issues? And if trans people want to be accepted and have their rights championed by feminism is that fair since the majority of feminists aren't also suffering those same problems? Is it not a huge double standard?

Abortion rights and prenatal care and contraceptive health, vaginal rape. Are these things off the table now for feminism?

Am I getting it wrong, missing something? It feels to me like male privilege, telling women what they can and can't talk about..and doing so in a way where they actually feel guilty as though they have done something wrong.

OP posts:
vettles · 17/05/2014 10:57

"when feminists are discussing things that are only capable of affecting biologically female women"

I've never seen TERF used in discussions like that. The only time I've seen it come out is when the conversation starts turning transphobic.

ReallyFuckingFedUp · 17/05/2014 10:34

I have seen comments by trans activist where they quote genuinely vile comments that are meant to come from feminist. So I would call that sort of thing TERF or really transphobic. And I would hope any genuine feminist feminist would pull someone up on spewing hate speech straight away.

But equally, I have always seen these quotes second hand and have NEVER actually seen anything horrible written about trans people by a feminist. And I do realise also that my version of what is acceptable (saying trans women shouldn't be allowed in spaces for vulnerable women etc) is unacceptable to trans activist, but if we can't debate those things as they affect women with out being told to shut up I give up on feminism.

OP posts:
Velocirapture · 17/05/2014 09:14

OK I've found out.

Velocirapture · 17/05/2014 09:09

What is TERF?

AskBasil · 17/05/2014 09:06

Well, there are a lot of movements out there who would like to co-opt feminism aren't there?

Some of them are more obviously anti-feminist than others.

I don't bother to engage with the more obviously misogynist ones. Even if you have a really low bar, anyone who tells me I'm not doing feminism properly if I want to discuss the lived experience of having a female body which does female things like menstruate, incubate babies etc., wouldn't really reach the bar for me and I'd just ignore.

DoctorTwo · 17/05/2014 08:49

Hmm, it's not something I know much about, so I'll go and educate myself a bit. Then I might be able to comment from a position of a tiny amount of knowledge.

ReallyFuckingFedUp · 17/05/2014 08:10

I am irritated by people insisting on the term cis-gender as well

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ReallyFuckingFedUp · 17/05/2014 08:09

whenthered I agree. I have yet to see it used fairly. I am irritated by people insisting on the term cis-gender.

I can't use the term because I don't believe there is such a thing and in my head it goes against everything that feminism stands for. WHy want feminism to use the term? Confused

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ReallyFuckingFedUp · 17/05/2014 08:05

almond cakes do you mean feminist whose experiences aren't strongly based on sex? Or just people in general? Because I can't think of any issues dealt with by feminism that aren't in some way connected to women's biology.

It's one of the reasons I find it bizarre that trans women want their cause to be championed by feminists.. it doesn't seem the best avenue for trans rights. It's like when MRAs ask what feminists are doing for prostate cancer.. I am not against men getting funding for prostate cancer or men trying to fund raise for cancer, I just don't see it as the job of feminists.

All are important but not feminist.

OP posts:
WhentheRed · 17/05/2014 00:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

almondcakes · 17/05/2014 00:23

No, they are not off the table, but I don't think trans women are collectively responsible for trying to close down discussion about them. Generally, people trying to close down those issues by making allegations of TERF are not trans women, but people whose own experiences aren't based very strongly on biological sex.

Isabeller · 17/05/2014 00:20

I would like to understand this.