Is sex working ever 'acceptable'

Being obtuse??.....s h e m a r r i e d h i m f o r h i s d o s h a n d

p r o s p e c t s

Err, what, Hannah?

Nope, nothing drawn from that piece of anecdata.

Well my cousin confided he hadn't had as much sex as he'd have liked or wanted within his marriage (and I'm 99.9% certain he won't have been unfaithful). Also that his wife never got that wet and struggled to orgasm. I've met her father and can just imagine how it was - "get in there girl; good prospects and family firm etc., therefore set for life."

Draw your on conclusions......

Men can have as much sex as they want, just as women can. What they can't have is as much porn-sex as they want with good looking women 20 years younger than them, just like women can't have as much sex as they want, whatever way they want with hot young men.

What seems to lie at the bottom of a lot of abolitionist argument is the idea that men should want less sex and that they should be prevented from having as much sex as they want, because sexual satisfaction should be difficult to obtain.

This is bollocks. I highly doubt that anyone on FWR believes this.

Men that will pay to fuck women who don't actually want to fuck them (only about 10% of the population of men) are suffering from the Madonna/Whore complex. Some women are 'pure' - their wives, mothers, sisters/daughters. Some are not: "prostitutes", "loose women," "slags". These men subscribe to the view that women are not their sexual equals, they are just people to get sex from. They have no sexual needs of their own, sex is not an equal-participation activity at all for them. It's all about their own gratification.

You sound as though you're talking to a two year old and I tend to disregard condescension.....I'm 52 years old with over twenty years experience of prostitution. (Sorry to bugger up the 'average age of entry' stats!)

Anyone whose line of work involves dealing with the public is at some degree of risk, whether that's of robbery or assault. Many people in many lines of work are exploited, underpaid, bullied by management, obliged to put up with unsafe or at least distasteful working conditions. Yet as long as their job doesn't involve sex, activism is directed at making the working conditions safer, organising the workers for better rights, etc.

What seems to lie at the bottom of a lot of abolitionist argument is the idea that men should want less sex and that they should be prevented from having as much sex as they want, because sexual satisfaction should be difficult to obtain.

I agree AF. It's hard to get my head around people who read accounts of women who have exited, like 22 , and conclude "the important thing here is that she was able to exercise her agency".

SGB being willing just isn't enough though, is it ?

someone like 22honey was "willing" at the time but I fail to see how you could justify all those men exploiting that "willingness"

and you are justifying it

22honey, although I am fairly sure you didn't mean it that way, your explanatory post encapsulates all the reasons why I believe the buying of sexual services should be a criminal act

ITA when

I don't see any importance in leaving the willing ones alone and it's certainly no-where near equally important as helping people in abusive situations. I don't raid people or tell lies about them and I certainly don't shit in their bank accounts. Are you suggesting feminists are doing these things sgb ?

In the case of BDSM/pro-domme sex workers it is their expertise the client is paying for. It's true in some other cases as well.
Though what seems to need repeating again and again is that not all sex workers are the same. They are not a homogenous mass. They have different stories, different needs, different requirements and while it's vital to help those who want to get away from abusive situations, it's equally important to leave the willing ones alone and stop raiding them, telling lies about them, shitting down their bank accounts and all the rest of it.

sgb I think "time and skills" is delusional. They are buying access to bodies, and orifices in particular.

You have completely misinterpreted that sentence, 22honey. I care about women being groomed and trafficked into the sex industry, because it shouldn't happen. And what happened to you, at the age of 12, shouldn't have happened. I don't want it to happen to my daughter, or anyone else's daughter.

However, this sentence;

Most of the clients I found were married middle class and tbh sometimes it makes me sad their better life circumstances and earning potential means they can buy the right to put their body parts in women who are usually much much younger and poorer than them. I was 18-21 years old and regularly had sex with 50 year old well off married fathers. It was strange I must say, I dont think I have been out long enough to fully regulate my feelings on it all.

sums up my problem with prostitution quite well. It makes me sad that that happens too.

What is blatently obvious?

'If society tolerates the treatment of one woman like this, it tolerates the treatment of all women like this.'

A classic quote that shows the true motive, don't care whatsoever about the women in prostitution, just about themselves and how it may affect them. Its shocking how many feminists put their points across and the motive behind their stance (this one) is blatantly obvious.

It didn't mention how much time the client spent with her. Not all bookings are 1 hour you know, sometimes it is for 30mins or even 15mins.

Yes, the length of booking and how you work dictates what you earn. For example, working indepently at home I'd earn £120 for an hour whetheras you'd get £70 in a brothel/massage parlour. If you did a 20 minute in a brothel you'd get about £25!

Most of the clients I found were married middle class and tbh sometimes it makes me sad their better life circumstances and earning potential means they can buy the right to put their body parts in women who are usually much much younger and poorer than them. I was 18-21 years old and regularly had sex with 50 year old well off married fathers. It was strange I must say, I dont think I have been out long enough to fully regulate my feelings on it all.

It shouldnt be made illegal because that puts sex workers at risk and many have already spent their whole lives like that, at risk and being abused. The safest way to work is in a massage parlour and there are lots of reputable ones the police know about and let operate in the UK.

I will have to make this quick for now, but I am an ex sex worker. I first sold sex when I was 15/16 and was living in a hostel (Im not an addict, just had family problems etc), I did it because I wanted extra money for having fun with friends. I was sexually abused, I was groomed when I was 12 and manipulated into having sex with local lads who were a similar age but much more streetwise than I was at that time. I had a very naive, materially spoilt upbringing but things went quite wrong when mum and dad split when I was 9 and then when I was 12 and mum had a mental breakdown (bipolar etc runs in my family) and ended up in psych hospital. This happened several times over the years till I was about 17, she has thank god been well since then.

I started 'escorting' when I was 18 and legal to do it, I did this because I lived in a shit hole of a council flat, was always being sexually harassed by my neighbours and was skint, broke whatever you want to call it despite my dad topping my benefit money up by £200 a month I had developed and drink and drug recreational habit if you will. I wanted nice things also, I think to feel good about myself and wanted to buy these myself. I wanted to be self sufficient and tbh at that point was in denial about how much the sexual abuse and exploitation had affected my self esteem and life. Please note this is a very minor explanation of everything that happened throughout my life. I was also kidnapped with machetes by some older asian men when I was 13 and they raped me and my friend and locked us in this place for hours, among several other similar experiences. Life went from being perfect with a nice well off enough proper family when I was a young child to the near enough opposite within a short time space. I spent a short time in care shortly after I was raped for the second time.

I am very good looking and since being very very young had large breasts and a very womanly figure (I hate saying that tbh dont want to sound big headed but its true) and I always got attention for it. I felt it was my fault everything bad happened because of me and my body. I believe developing so early cut my childhood off, I got lots of attention from grown men from being 11 years old and it felt good because I didnt get any at home. I had everything materially (both my bio and my 'adopted' dad, my siblings real dad, are well off) but no attention, mum wasnt well enough to give it me and our dad barely had any contact just paid maintenance.

I felt liberated by sex work at first and enjoyed the money, I felt like my body and sex was the only thing I had that was worth anything, but I was rubbish with money and ended up always wasting it on crap, spending £100s on beauty treatments, clothes and hair extensions and partying. I worked in several 'high end' brothels (they are accepted here in GTR Manc) and met lots of lovely women. Most of them were like me, working class, poor, been in care but nevertheless attractive normal women. I was shocked by the amount of them who were in an abusive relationship at home, usually where the partner didnt even know they were prostituting. One of the most 'popular' (she was stunning!) girls at the place would regularly come in covered in bruises and it was well known she got the life beat out of her at home on a regular basis. There were also quite a few immigrants from Poland, Africa, Russia etc. No one was forced to be there, but I did believe circumstances took a lot of them there. Many were like I said poor 'underclass', loads of single mums but there were a few students aswell who seemed mentally sound.

Sometimes women have to do this, so their kids arnt going without and arnt the 'poor kids' at school, so they can live a comfortable lifestyle and often because the money is just fantastic compared to what low skilled women like me can actually earn. I have managed to get out because my dad has supported me more as he and my mother dont want me doing it. I am 23 this year and have been out for a year and for the first time I am not constantly on edge, stressed and angry. I should have quit atleast a year before I did.

Sorry this is quite rushed and Im going to have to leave it for now but will continue later!

I find it odd that opponents of sex work always insist that the customer is buying the person rather than buying access to the person's time and skills. A transaction between client and sex worker is agreed to encompass either a specific amount of time or a specific set of activities, after which they go their separate ways.

There are plenty of jobs outside the sex industry where clients and employers do behave as though they own the people they are paying.