Is sex working ever 'acceptable'

22honey - we may be in the same circles. Did you recently hear about the working girl who died? She worked in a parlour but her employers seriously seriously let her down. Failed to protect her, was letting her get pissed when they knew she had alcohol problems, she was once found passed out and abused. One punter wanted to take her to the hospital but management refused. Absolutely shocking

In the business women need to stick together but here they failed. Big style.

Goldie, I think that looks are part of it, but a fairly small part. I think a larger part is being able to buy someone else to behave how you want and not have to care about them.

Somewhere upthread there was a question about moral issues. I don't have a moral issue with anyone sleeping with anyone else per se; I do think it's emotionally corrosive, both for the seller and the buyer, to repeatedly have sex that one party doesn't want to be having.

To be honest - and I'm sure much ot the disgust of the feminists - I'm rather ambivalent. I have found myself walking, quite frequently, through the Red Light district of the city that I lived in at the time but it was always pretty evident which ladies were offering sex and which weren't, so I was never approached. I'm sure I'd be less ambivalent if I found DH was using prostitutes (at least whilst he's been with me, but I'm not sure what reaction I'd have if it had been before that).

I have, I suppose, held the rather naive view that the reason men use Escorts (as opposed to street walkers) is that they are generally very good looking and relatively young. For whatever reason, our society values youth and good looks - shallow as that is. So I've never thought it was about an exercising of power. I've always thought it was more about experiencing something you wouldn't normally. Like Mondeo man may occasionally pay to rent a Lamborghini for the weekend just to experience something different, something beautiful (if a Lamborghini is what you can call beautiful). Maybe I'm not explaining well but my naive view has been that it's more about having the ability to afford something away from the dull and mundane; and that the excitement of that is part of the thrill. Frankly, the 'use' of streetwalkers I've never understood. That just screams 'risk' from every standpoint for everyone involved.

The thing I've wondered is why Societies that would term themselves 'advanced' are the ones that generate a demand (need?) for prostitution. Ancient China, the Ancient Greeks, Ancient Egypt, Rome, the Japanese and, since the industrial revolution - or since gaining military strength - 'The West'. These were the Societies that progressed humankind in so many way (Philosophically, Mathatically, Scientifically, Politically, Militarily and - arguably - Societally). And yet it was not so in tribal societies (that were using primitive tools, bows and arrows and so on) - the Native Americans, much of Africa (until 'the white man' arrived of course), Aborigines etc. I couldn't comment on the Aztecs and their ilk - I don't know enough of them. Does prostitution emerge in societies that no longer need simply to survive; that actually do things for 'leisure'? Does it stem from trade (as opposed to barter)? Does it stem from large, organised military complexes?

^ terrible typos! Apologies

Honey, that is awful. And I'd like to hear what vof, or whatevr his nest name will be, has to say about that. I'm also shocked by the NZ 'consumer protection legislation' thing Just abhorrent - is a women just so much of a commodity to these men, that suing is a possibility??

On the 'sex-worker' thing - well Douglas Fox calls himself a sex worker, and is neck-deep in the IUSW and his partner's escort agency. I'd love to know the last time he actually had sex with someone for money. I'm thinking it was a long time ago if ever. He has other means to bring the money in.

Pimps will be Pimps, Douglas Fox

That is awful, honey. Truly awful.

I'd say it would be practically impossible for a well meaning punter to accurately seek out a prostitute who had no issues whatsoever, was well educated etc as you simply cannot tell from adverts and two of the most popular girls on the Manchester parlour scene one was always coming in covered in bruises as I said above and the other was a prolific drinker and cocaine abuser always off her face in work (she got sacked from one place eventually for it) who lived a really chaotic lifestyle and was in a very abusive relationship (I swear they nearly all were!!).

They were still extremely popular with 100s of great reviews online because they were young, slim, good looking and did practically every sex act going 'enthusiastically'. Both had been doing the job since before they were 18 (they were both about 25 at the time I was working with them) I actually saw punters who knew and gossiped about these girls lives inc the domestic violence and still didnt see a problem at all with paying them for sex. Its the mindset if the girl is good at her job and enthusiastic nothing else matters, its her free choice and she must be loving it. Its like some people also think good looking well groomed people can never be poor, vulnerable or have problems.

Wishing that pimps and johns experience being prostituted, I think you will find, Vo.

Back already, Vo?

"a feminist being rude about the Amnesty stance."

And wishing rape on people, just to add.

I know he's banned but when I clicked on that image, I was expecting it to be a feminist being rude about a prostitute. Instead it was a feminist being rude about the Amnesty stance.

Not very bright, Vo.

"No matter what time of day or night I come on here to post, I always get a very quick (sometimes instant) response from the same people."

Your own responses are pretty damn speedy, and there's only one of you, sunshine.

22Honey - I don't know of the stats on domestic violence, but yes, I would imagine that plays a part. In a fair few cases, the 'boyfriend' is the pimp too.

I totally agree with your last post, too.

'How would you like it if you were in a high paid job, but it happened to be a job that offended the morals of some people '

Its not about the morals of some people. Its about the inherent exploitation and sickening power inbalance that is abundant on the game. Why on earth do you think most sex workers (even at well respected, amazingly decorated and furnished reputable parlours with 100s of good reviews online) are poor, drug addicted, have been in care, are in an abusive relationship, are single mothers or from poor countries?

And why most clients are middle class, drive nice cars and are quite clearly well off especially if they can afford to fork out escort prices? I remember my neighbour being amazed at the standard of cars that would regularly park up outside my shithole council flat!

Yes theres a few older more middle class women who usually have sacked off a high paying long hours job to do escorting- and the reason for that is? They want/need more time with their children but don't want to have to downgrade their kids lifestyle too much. I'd say thats another gender issue, tbh.

I do wonder how many murders of sex workers are down to domestic violence...as I said it was a shocking amount of women in an abusive relationship on the brothel scene, something I never witnessed when I worked in several different hairdressers.

Yes, I imagine they would be Sabrina and London isnt a prostitute friendly place I don't think- there is a ridiculous amount of competition which leads many women to sell sex even independently for practically nothing, add that to the huge cost of living down there and many of them are practically slaves.

'And They Shower Beforehand Too!"

If they didn't the sex worker would either demand they showered first or refuse to see them. What were you thinking?'

I think your missing the point. Its about the entitlement that a woman (whose usually much younger than the punter, and more attractive!) should genuinely enjoy the sex purely because they have showered. Its disrespectful in so many ways, odd how you can't see that. Some men can shower and still have an utterly vile off putting personal smell. There is so much more to how you feel about each individual punter than whether they have showered or not.

When your a brilliant actress in bed who can switch off easily you will make a good prostitute.

honey - I'm really glad that experienced little violence - but Home Office stats show that a woman working in London as a prostitute is 12 times more likely to be murdered than any other woman.

I agree with you that women working on the street are far more likely to experience violence than those working indoors though.

"No, clients are just beating them up and murdering them."

And your source is what?'

Tbf, it is true that violence from punters to brothel and independant workers is very very uncommon. I had one aggressive client in 3 years and even then he didnt physically hurt me (though it was traumatic for me and forced me to give it up!). I had Uglymugs warnings emailed and texted to me and they were always about streetworkers. Other places tend to be targeted by armed robbers occasionally though, but I suspect this happens with other businesses aswell.

'Does this come across to you as blindingly entitled, Vo? Not only does this man want to ejaculate into a woman whose consent he has bought, he wants to own her response as well, complaining that it wasn't passionate (after all, he's average build and he showers, FGS!) and that she faked an orgasm.'

It is blindly entitled, and many punters were tbh, They were usually the ones who had been doing it a while, first timers were usually a lot less jaded and entitled I found. If they stuck with you (which many do, just stick with one girl they like) they tended to remain unentitled. I hated getting 'well known' punters and those who had been doing it for years as they had huge entitlement and expectations!

I bet you're proud to have feminists like her on your side.

I don't think wishing rape on people is the best way to respond to Amnesty Int's recent decision (and to get AI to listen to you). But that's just my opinion.