Stranger "hits" DD - am I over-reacting?

Dragon - I agree, of course young people can have hidden disabilities. But no I don't think this girls explanation of a bad back and being tired are acceptable reasons not to move to a different seat.

IME on buses, when you have lots of people tutting, shaking their heads, etc, it is because of a totally obvious and shocking situation where the individual concerned obviously does not care, and asking them would make no difference. So people express their disapproval.

I get buses very regularly that are full of elderly people. I can only remember twice when lots of people were tutting and expressing disapproval. It is a very very unusual situation and both times it was because of an incredible display of selfishness.

Yes you can get one out of order arssy old person. But that is not the situation here. Here all the older people on the bus were expressing their disapproval at the OP's daughter.

Why are we allowed to talk about some children being horrible spoiled brats and everyone piles in with tales of their own and discusses how they would deal with such children, yet elderly people, who often behave equally badly because they're old and entitled (yes they do!) must never be spoken of negatively? Where is the word for slagging off kids and teenagers, can we use "ageism" for that too?

Snatch, yes I did say that. It does not make his reaction right. But I have felt angry at watching people behaving incredibly selfishly in public situations.

And if the situation is exactly as described, then all the old people tutting on the bus is an extreme reaction. So something very obviously wrong was happening.

I have arthritis in both knees I have had it since I was 13 years old. There are days when I can't walk without the aid of a cane and have to sit downstairs on the bus, although I try not to sit in the priority seats if I can help it. If I am sitting down you can't tell there is anything wrong with me and most people don't see the cane. I have lost count of the amount of times I have been told off and shouted at by older people who want my seat because there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with me because I am young. My point is that a lot of people have a hidden disability and we shouldn't judge who gets to sit were solely on the basis of age.
If the people on the bus wanted the OP's DD to move they should have asked her politely to do so and accepted the explanation they gave.
It was in no way acceptable for the man to hit her and I would definitely report it.

Ok, maybe OP's DD was a bit selfish, but that's no excuse for hitting her. Hitting is illegal, not giving up a bus seat is not.

Not over-reacting.

I have a teen, and have taught him that in most circumstances he should give up his seat (wherever it is on the bus or tube, not just the priority seats) to older/elderly people, or anyone that looks like they could do with it. He's fit and strong. But the old man knew nothing about your daughter, and had no idea if she had hidden disabilities that meant she really needed to sit.

And, of course, even if he had perfect knowledge and knew that she was being a bit discourteous, he still had ABSOLUTELY NO RIGHT to touch her at all, in any way.

It might be a good idea to tell her that, if she ever gets manhandled on a bus again, she should go straight to the driver. Just because a passenger is elderly doesn't give them permission to hit strangers in any way, and particularly not teenage girls.

"It's the elephant in the room and we are not supposed to say it but sometimes elderly people can be arrogant arses who expect to be kow towed to just because they're old."

Not the elephant in the Mumsnet room- it's a recurring theme.

If you had met a couple red heads, 18 year olds or black people who were arrogant arses, would you be happy to characterise all red heads, 18 year olds or black people? No, thought not. But old people are fair game.

What about all the other passengers? Why were they not assaulted and expected to move? I think it is unfair that all the focus is placed on the DD, and I suspect it was because she was an easy target.

My mother had horrific pregnancies. She was in a supermarket, heavily pregnant, in the queue, just trying to stay upright when a rather spritely old woman pushed her out of the way and said "You have to let me go first, I'm old". My mother who is nails by the way was so tired, and so sore, and so shocked, she says she just stood there.

My point? Some people are just rude. If she wasn't sitting in a priority seat, and no-one appeared to be physically disabled then frankly, I don't think she should have had to give it up. I'm not sure this issue is gendered. I think it as likely that an elderly woman would have done that to her. If anyone needed a seat, and is not obviously in need of it, they should ask. When heavily pregnant, I made no bones about asking for seats if I felt the alternative was to end up in a faint on the floor or throwing up over someone. Although I did tend to target able bodied men! Not elderly people.

I hope the rest of her exams go well. There's always one horrid paper - tell her that I came out of one of my uni finals in tears, and got a first in it!

I think age should be discussed here. It was central to the entire issue, if he was young he wouldn't have needed the seat and the whole issue should never have arisen. And some elderly people are very entitled and unpleasant, demanding allowances be made and becoming aggressive and unpleasant if they are not. My dd was sitting beautifully in her pram in the post office one day, just occasionally making noises at the toy she was playing with. An elderly woman bent dine and told her very aggressively to "shut up!" Then looked around like she should he congratulated. She received a similar response herself from me. Another time on the bus when I was struggling with both my dc (both with ASD) another elderly woman become very verbally aggressive towards us. I've never had that from people who weren't older.

It's the elephant in the room and we are not supposed to say it but sometimes elderly people can be arrogant arses who expect to be kow towed to just because they're old.

"If you behave badly in public, you risk someone reacting to your bad behaviour in a less than perfect way."

This reads as you equating the behaviour of DD in not moving with the behaviour of the man in hurting her. Is that not how you meant it?

So if I tut at commuters on the train when pregnant and they don't move, what am I allowed to do? Should I perhaps ask someone politely if I can have their seat? That would seem to be conventional.

Of course he shouldn't have hit her.

The OP should take it further.

It is entirely legitimate to also comment on other elements of the thread.

So he shouldnt have been violent. Thank you. All else is completely by the by.

Of course he shouldn't have hit her. If I was the OP I would be asking the bus company to review the CCTV footage - it does seem a very extreme reaction for a whole busful of people to react like this- were there other teenagers on the bus too making for a charged atmosphere?

But I do have to say that the ageism on this thread is disgusting. Mumsnet at its worse when any topic involves anyone over the age of 65.

And the excuses are from others on the thread.

Stealth, I have said many times that the man should not have hit her. Nobody here has defended that.

Turgid the op stated in her very first post that she thhought her dd should have moved.
this thread is about the hitting by a man of a young woman who wasnt doing as he wanted.
where do you stand on that?

But I know sadly that many people really don't think old people matter.

Snatch - Nobody has said it is fine to hit people.

But I get fed up of all the excuses as to why it was fine for a healthy 17 year old not to just move to a different seat.

I really have only ever seen lots of people tutting when it is a blatantly obvious and shocking situation when someone has not moved.

I'm not talking about a teenager. I'm talking about adult commuters. Can I hit them if they don't move?

Two separate issues

Anyone hitting anyone ever is wrong

Being 17 and not moving your sorry ass for old people is wrong

No, if you get pregnant again you can stand because a teenager feels tired and entitled. Of course you can't hit her but you can stand and smile understandingly at the poor girl who needs the seat more than you.

Turgid, if I decide to get pregnant again, can I hit commuters who don't move for me even if there are other seats available?

That's excellent, I shall look forward to that.

Contact the bus company and ask to see the CCTV OP. And then you can see for yourself what exactly happened.

Except the other passengers did react. They were tutting and making it clear that they thought the girl should move seats. To have lots of passengers doing that, is very unusual and suggests an extreme situation.