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Original poster

Playing devil's advocate. Can I discuss this here?

59 replies

AskBasil · 02/04/2014 17:11

It's not always a feminist issue but often it is. Mostly when I've seen it done by women, they say up front "just to play devil's advocate here, what about...?" and they're honest about playing DA or just playing with the idea, throwing it out there and seeing if it's got any merit. Whereas the man I want to discuss ,does it as if he believes in what he is saying when I have previously heard him strenuously argue something else, so I'm not actually sure what he believes.

This makes me very uncomfortable, because I think there's a level of dishonesty and also disrespect about it; I feel like he's wasting my time and energy by engaging me in some sort of power game where he wants to get one over on me. Whereas I'm not interested in winning an argument, I like exploring ideas and issues. He's a friend I've known for a long time, he and his wife worked in the same company as me for a while and we've been friends ever since, but I've realised I don't actually like him very much, however I'm v. good friends with his wife (and kids).

Another friend of mine who knows them both pointed out that when people play DA they always do it from a right wing stance; (she's never heard someone with right wing leanings, argue for higher taxes and better income re-distribution in order to play DA and wind someone up). She reckons it's because people who do it are actually reactionary bastards who like to think they're liberal and so dress up their actual opinions as DA because they can't bear to think they share opinions with right wing people for whom they have some distaste. Another friend of our's reckons people who do it simply don't believe anything.

Anyway, we were over there for dinner last Friday and he did it again and it really pissed me off (and elicited this bitch-fest discussion with my other friend who reckons he's a deep down closet reactionary Grin). I felt the need to vent and also to find out if anyone else has a friend like this and how they engage with him - I actually try not to get into discussions with him because I realise I don't want And also to find out if there's any feminist angle to this because I have never seen him do this to men, only to women and he particularly likes to do it around feminist topics.

OP posts:
Thouneedsbedamned · 02/04/2014 19:18

Can you become a toddler and start playing the "why" game?

I would imagine he would run out of steam eventually? Plus you may even find out if his DA act is based on factual knowledge rather than a contrary attitude.

Original poster
AskBasil · 02/04/2014 19:16

Yes I think ignorance is a major driver for some DA's.

Not for this bloke though. He's fairly well read and well informed and he's the one who starts the arguments. It's not that everyone is discussing something he doesn't know much about, he's the one who starts the discussions. And I foolishly allow myself to be drawn in.

OP posts:
Thouneedsbedamned · 02/04/2014 19:15

Basil Not particularly helpful but when aforementioned father is doing his DA act I use "Ah, I see you have brought balance to the force" accompanied by Hmm face.

Not the most grown up of responses but at least it is in a language he understands.

Original poster
AskBasil · 02/04/2014 19:14

Sorry, cross posted

OP posts:
Original poster
AskBasil · 02/04/2014 19:13

Which we still formally, on the surface have. Often we get on really well and have a laugh together. But I just think deep down, he's a white middle class man with an enormous sense of entitlement which he doesn't recognise.

OP posts:
Thouneedsbedamned · 02/04/2014 19:13

My Dad does this. He is very successful but certainty not academic or up to date with social/economic/political ideas, the nature of his work means he has to deal with all sorts of people who are usually better educated and more informed than he is and this "threatens" him. But, by playing DA when it comes to a topic of conversation he doesn't have any useful input for, it enables him to engage in the discussion by making very simple opposing arguments to the one being presented.

I think that ties in with what almond is saying re: ignorence

Original poster
AskBasil · 02/04/2014 19:12

Oh, how do I not engage though?

It is so difficult. I usually manage to not let myself be drawn into discussions with this sort of nobber. I can be really detached and simply not engage. But for some reason with this bloke I always let myself be drawn in and I think it's because of the residue of friendship we once had.

OP posts:
almondcake · 02/04/2014 17:56

I don't have anything coherent to say. Hopefully somebody else will.

You've obviously given a lot of thought to why he does what he does. It could be that you are doing this to work out a pattern of behaviour so that when you see it in the future in somebody else, you can avoid it. Or it could be that when somebody is horrible (which he is), you don't feel it is okay just to thing life is too short to deal with you, but instead feel you need to justify your dislike of him. So I just wanted to say, it is totally okay to say to yourself that life is too short, and then not engage.

You've covered a lot of the reasons people play devil's advocate, and the link covers many more. I'd suggest another reason is that some people are trying to hide their ignorance. They don't actually know enough about a topic to get into a nuanced discussion, so they just say the opposite so they can join in.

TerrariaMum · 02/04/2014 17:38

I don't really have anything useful to say, but you might find this of interest.

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