Playing devil's advocate. Can I discuss this here?

almondcake - there are websites recommending this as a pulling strategy?

You could go over to the red pill and read whole threads on alpha male behaviour and how to get women to have sex with you by:

A. Dominating the conversation.
B. Making yourself the appointed judge of the contributions of the beta males and opinionated unattractive women.
C. Spotting the submissive females you want to attract by their giggling and discomfort at the conversation.

Of course there is a power dynamic behind it. To actually get into an argument with them is to play their game. Their ability to be tedious doesn't make them more worthy of your time and attention than anybody else in the room is.

That's it exactly Ria.

Possibly they only do it to people who's time they feel entitled to waste.

"What you are saying is of use to neither man nor beast."

Made me laugh.

I so identify with what everyone is saying. So tedious, isn't it?

My dad does this to me. It is exhausting and just means I edit and censor everything I say in case he latches onto something to argue debate about.

For example, he drives a lot for a living and is always critical of everyone else's driving, moaning about speeders, tailgaters and sunday-drivers. If I turn up to visit and say I had a nightmare journey stuck behind someone doing 20mph on a main road he will launch into a rant about how I shouldn't judge them, how there could be a million reasons they were going so slow etc.

He does do it to other men but, thinking about it, he only does it to those he feels powerful around i.e. his brothers, son, younger colleagues. He doesn't do it to my H or his bosses etc.

"That's one of the things I want to know FF - do men do this in RL with other men?"

Yes some do, I do. But it depends on the circumstance of the conversation and the people involved in it, their nature and ability to hold anothers opinion (devils or not) worthy of consideration.

It sounds like he's being a wind up merchant rather than furthering debate by posing contrary views.

But saying that It is possible to hold contradictory views on a subject at the same time and most some men will judge a situation/subject from a few varied viewpoints before deciding on which one they will doggedly hold. never to be swayed from

This bloke does sound like a total pain. And I do think I've seen the same quite often - it irritates me massively because with some blokes, it is how they 'vet' you as reasonable and intelligent enough for the immense honour of conversing with them.

I do think this may be what's happening here. Because, as you say, if he were just interested in two opposing sides of an argument, he could say so. Not saying so makes it come across as a test where he has the answers.

Is it possible to turn his tactics on him? Talk about radical feminism, for example. Be slightly overbearing when he tries to change the subject? Or if he's really annoying a good over-dramatic wince and phrases like 'yes, so true, often people believe that' or 'well, of course, this is such an outdated argument is has to be devil's advocate, but you must remember that there are more important things to consider, such as ...'.

Dunno, but that is what I think I try? I am less patient and more arsey than you, though.

My mother's usual responses to such men, before changing the subject or talking to someone else instead, therefore making it clear that the conversation is over are:

1. You are being ridiculous,
2. What you are saying is of use to neither man nor beast.
3. I have a somewhat different perspective because I was actually there/ actually have done that/actually live that life.

My brother also thinks they should be put together. But I don't think I should have to witness it. Particularly as this usually comes up in the context of who is going on a camping holiday. I can only deal with one at a time.

sometimes men do this to men in real life, but generally if you know one man who is like that, you have to keep him separate from other men like that, because if you put two in the same room all hell breaks loose. Men like that essentially get treated like children. Other men and women are just humouring them. Everyone knows they are being ridiculous, hence your conversation with your friend.

When he starts on about something, could you not ask him what the issues that are important to him are, so that he actually has to state some kind of consistent belief every time?

Not engaging depends on how rude you are prepared to be. You can either change topic by saying, "an issue that a really important to me is X and this is my involvement in it." Or, when he is discussing issue Y, say that you do not wish to discuss issue Y, because it is so important to your own experience that you don't want to debate it. Or, when is discussing issue Z, say I have already discussed this with Mrs Intellectual giant and Ms activist, and I feel well informed on it already and don't think this debate will add to my understanding.

I think I am prepared to be rude to men like that through being honest. If someone kept changing opinions, I'd probably say that I see no point discussing things with them when I doubt the depth of their understanding of it because their perspective is radically different in every conversation, and they don't seem to have a set of cohesive values, which makes finding common ground for a nuanced and constructive debate impossible, and that I am interested in the finer points of disagreement, not in endless polemics like I'm Richard Dawkins vs. a creationist. And I'd say all that very fast so as not to be interrupted, then I'd make a surreal joke and completely change the topic to basket making or something, making it clear I was not seeking a response to my statement.

I think that perhaps isn't not engaging. It is getting them to stop talking.

"Why don't you have the guts to say what you really think, instead of hiding behind an opinion you don't actually believe in?"

Kasey, you are my new goddess.

My dad does this too. In his case it's because thought experiments are interesting, and he can't comprehend why someone else might have an emotional response to a subject that is purely academic to him

I also hate this. For some reason I don't encounter it as much as I used to. Maybe I have cut out the people I know who tend to do this? When I realise someone has form for this, I try not to get into a discussion with them unless I say "Are you playing DA?" right at the beginning.

My annoyance comes from the wasted energy getting involved in a discussion which turns out to be pointless. I agree that there's a dishonesty about it. Do men do this with other men? I'll need to ask DH what he thinks.

Oh I absolutely hate it when people play "devil's advocate". I usually say something like "Why don't you have the guts to say what you really think, instead of hiding behind an opinion you don't actually believe in?" Because that's basically what they're trying to do: spout an offensive opinion without taking responsibility for that opinion by hiding behind a cool veneer of detached objectivity.

Or ask him if he's been to the doctor's of late, as just last week he was saying the exact opposite. Pull a concerned face about his memory loss.

Words cannot express how much I hate this shit.

Ask him if he also still pulls pigtails in the playground because it's funny to wind someone up?