Another school uniform one - ties?

The school I'm currently at, the boys have to wear a tie and the girls have a scarf type thing, It's in the school colours and the kind of thing you would see as uniform in the workplace, I want to way flight attendant, but actually not quite that.

Back when boudicca still ruled and I was at an all girl school we wore ties. Find it interesting that some people here want to enforce gender stereotypes rather than look at equality for both sexes.

Ties are male clothes, not female, so I totally understand why it's not compulsory for girls to wear ties.

Only by fashion, and plenty of schools insist girls also wear ties.

During the Edwardian era, plenty of women wore ties. There's nothing about a tie other than tradition that makes it inherently male or female (unlike perhaps bras or codpieces.) As we're in FWR, I'm surprised more people haven't challenged the view that it's male clothing. No one questions women wearing trousers these days (though men are rarely free to wear skirts, so there's still an imbalance there.)

When I was at a mixed school, everyone had to wear ties, boys and girls. They were optional at our single-sex upper school, except for formal events like prizegiving.

I think if they're being made compulsory, they should be compulsory for all.

Hear Hear mousmous there is no point for the children but it DOES give some of the 'jobsworth' teachers a power thrill.

I don't think ties have a place in a school.
a primary in my area has ties for both boys and girls and I would rather not send my dc there.

imo school uniform is ridiculous anyway. other countries that don't have them don't do worse education wise. so what is the point of putting dc in (often) ill fitting plastic fabrics?

I 'll never forget a film taken of a load of smart tie wearing schoolboys running after one of their 'friends' to beat him up. lovely behaviour

Exactly Nocomet As if teachers haven't got enough to do.

I don't think it's an issue. When I was a child, at all the schools I've been to boys wear ties, girls don't. Where I work we have a uniform, men wear ties, women don't.

Ties are male clothes, not female, so I totally understand why it's not compulsory for girls to wear ties.

Ties just waste teaching time for both sexes, as school insists the teachers check they are neat every sodding lesson and sign pointless bits of card if they are untidy.

Unless as someone upthread mentioned it can be used as a noose

Agree martorana I have always wondered why insisting ANYONE wears a bit of material round their neck makes a positive difference to their behaviour. i reckon it's a pile of bullshit.

I don't think you can really majesty the comparison with French schools. Discipline in French homes is entirely different. Surely we all know by now that French children are perfectly behaved from the moment they leave the cradle!!!!! In areas where the majority are not French, culturally, discipline in schools is very poor

French schools do not have a dress code.

French law prohibits the wearing of religious symbols in public.

Honestly, I don't see how these two facts are related!

That American office mentioned does have a dress code too.....

Don't you? Well, blow me down. We aren't going to get anywhere between the two of us, so let's drop it. We disagree.

No, French schools do not have a dress code at all. The country has a law prohibiting the wearing of religious symbols in public. I don't think that's the same thing!

Because plea said france has a good reputation for pushing their school students and no state schools wear uniform it makes no difference to their behaviour.

So while France may go easy on school uniform, they still have a dress code of sorts, which they believe provides an environment more amenable to academic excellence. Which is one of the reasons that school uniform is seen by its supporters as a positive thing.

Artetas- how on earth is that relevant?

France does impose dress codes that we don't have in the UK though, plea. Didn't they ban headscarves, burquas and religious jewellery in schools? Or was that in the workplace only?

DH is on the board of (an American company) and NO ONE wears ties so where's the office that insists on men wearing ties?

They do for some mad reason wear long sleeve shirts and jackets even in the summer don't ask.

france has a good reputation for pushing their school students and no state schools wear uniform it makes no difference to their behaviour.

Agree with technical too...
DDs school has a new head who is enforcing the wearing of blazers, school shoes and no black skinny jeans.
It does seem to be having a positive impact on behaviour.
I do think primary should have a uniform (worked in an inner city one years ago with the 9-10 yr old girls wearing 'sexy' black lace crop tops and the like - uniform much better!) but more casual - polo shirts etc.

"And we are. But you keep referring to adult female forms of dress vs adult male forms of dress. And you are trying to apply adult norms to children.

I think that if the rules for girls and boys were different, you could find fault with that too."
Eh? It's not me keeps saying that kids should wear "smart office dress" and boys need to practice wearing ties because they'll have to wear them when they grow up! I don't think they should wear uniform at all, personally.

I think they should wear ties.
DD1 uniform is black and white (with a navy blazer)
In summer when they are not wearing a blazer/cardi they wouldn't look like they were in uniform without it if that makes sense.
The tie makes it clear it is a school uniform and I think both sexes should wear them.
Haven't read the other thread but if it was that girl should be able to wear trousers completely agree..
I was on the pupil forum 30+ yrs ago at my school arguing that girls should be able to wear trousers. We still weren't allowed -but they are now.
Same in catering college - I already had checked trousers but had to buy a white dress to wear with over the knee white socks (If nothing else they were dangerous). I argued then but it didn't make a difference ... I saw some students a few years ago and the girls were in checks!
So we are making progress in equality - I think girls not wearing ties if anything would be a backward step....

I think there is a difference from Primary School to Secondary. I prefer Polos at Primary, at Secondary I would prefer something that looks smarter (and Polos/Sweatshirts don't look really smart after a few washes).

But I don't really think its a feminist issue, unless they don't allow girls to wear trousers or something.

A different issue entirely but the "practical" uniform is not popular among parents. They say/think it is and then move house to get their DCs into the "better" school with the posh uniform.

Schools with excellent reputations, the kind that people will move house for, very rarely have a polo shirt uniform. The schools aren't always better in reality but they give that perception, in part, because of the smart uniform.

Having worked in schools with a variety of uniforms and been there when a uniform has changed (in both directions) I can say that the more formal, strictly enforced uniform definitely has a positive impact on behaviour.