Sports activity for women - Burlesque?!

I would wonder what is behind the 'choice'.

So we get opinion pieces with both sides believing they are right. Said elsewhere debate on this sort of subject gets futile. It gets polarised between neo liberal feminism and radical feminism. And it seems the two cannot exist side by side on these boards. We will see shouty nasty messages that, as Flora says, say one side is right the other is wrong. And so two groups of women end up disenfranchised with each other. Just a reminder I am on the freedom of choice side of feminism.

You're confusing feminism with libertarianism.

Feminism IS about choice. People can do as they want.

but what I don't understand is how someone can tell someone else that what they think is completely wrong because, in their eyes, there is only one way to be a feminist; their way.

When you believe something is right, you also believe the opposite view of it is wrong. That's how ideology works.

HTH

No, I'm not talking about Blurred Lines and I agree that that song (and Robin Prick) does not empower women at all. If someone could justify their argument for it, however, I certainly wouldn't call them a wanker, whether I agree or not.

I've never heard anyone making the argument that "Blurred Lines" represents feminism? Anyone have a link?

Pole fitness and pole dancing are (according to those that if it it) poles apart (pun intended), so I assume it is a pole fitness class you attend?

And I'm inclined to agree with tabard that people who think Blurred Lines represents feminism are wankers

Tabard what a lovely way to describe people with different views to you

Pole dancing classes don't show you how to pole dance for performance. Not the ones that I've been to. They show you how to use your body strength to lift yourself and swing around the pole. I'm shit at it but they are fun and good exercise at the same time. You wear sports clothes and not underwear. That being said, what is it to you if someone wants to perform? No one is forcing them to and there is certainly no one telling you that you should too. Yes, if there was someone forcing a woman to dance for the pleasure of men of course that would be disgusting and go against every view of feminism that I have! but that isn't what we're talking about here.

I understand that everyone has different views on feminism and a lot of "old school" feminists are far less liberal in their views, but what I don't understand is how someone can tell someone else that what they think is completely wrong because, in their eyes, there is only one way to be a feminist; their way.

Oddly enough, it does help NiceTabard.
I often feel very dinosaur-like when reading the FWR boards, with my obsolete and archaic crusty old 70s views.

I do pole fitness (not pole dancing)
I also do spin, weights and horse ride
It's just another class to me, nothing sexual, great for my core and upper body and it's v social too

Yeah well people who think that are wankers

HTH

But there are many feminists who see dancing in a sexually provocative manner, or stripping, as empowering and their free choice.
Who see Miley and Robin and 'Blurred Lines' as a good thing.
Feminism is a very broad spectrum, and the parts that blur into abuse and exploitation are where I get confused and uncomfortable.

goblin the moves shown in the video are around gymnastics , and not about a performance designed to sexually arouse.

That for me is always the difference.

Interested re burlesque dancing = striptease

because it does

Do I think that public money should be spent encouraging schoolgirls to learn "burlesque dancing"?

Um, NO.

So there we have it :)

Well, I'm not. I've always thought pole dancing and striptease and Burlesque were things I'd be very unhappy doing or watching because it conflicts with my view of what my feminism involves.
But I'm also aware that later feminist movements have different views.

If there were classes up and down the land teaching women (and men) how to do the moves shown in that video, that would be amazing, because it's truly pushing the human body, rather than doing something for the benefit of an onlooker.

So are we pretending that men watching women poledance / strip / burlesque / whatever are in it for the sport?

the poledancing men in the link looked, erm, nice. I have an upper body strength thing. Anyway.

Clue in the audience people! Audience for male pole-dancing competition was men, appreciating the physical effort. I can look and think, mmm, but, that's not why they are doing it.

I often forget that people pretend obvious stuff isn't true.

I saw a group of 4 West African men ho had a pole dancing show at the Brighton festival a few years back. Fantastic, but definitely more circus acrobatics than strip.

Wow

Haven't seen men pole dance, but here is a man doing pole gymnastics while not being even slightly sultry:

Spot the difference...

but it is striptease, right?

Without that aspect, it's not "burlesque dancing" but presumably just "dancing"?

Well I suppose your stereotypical PTA mummy with a Cath Kitson handbag and Boden coat that your sure marketing toward, wouldn't take up stripping lessons in a back room of a local pub. But would consider ladies burlesque classes at the local wine bar?

Hmm that was maybe the wrong way to put it.

Stripping vs "acceptable middle class" stripping

Or something.

But Burlesque dancing is striptease, isn't it?