Come and tell me what you think of girls schools...

Depending on how much credence you give to your dd's view you may find she rules out single sex education. My dd was emphatic she didn't want to go to an all girl's school so we didn't consider it.

I went to an all-girls boarding school, which had a close partnership with the all-boys school (which was co-ed in the sixth form) in the town, and there were many joint extra-curriculars outside of academics. For example, most of our school plays (but not all of them), were joint productions with the boys school.

It worked well, because we received the benefits of a single-sex education, but we regularly mixed with the boys. And once in the sixth form, you were mixing with the boys, and some new girls too (which was nice, as you got to see some new faces, after seeing the same old ones for five years)!

I don't know how the partnership works now, as the all-boys school became co-ed all the way through, the year after I left. There is nothing on either school's website to say they work together, so I wonder whether that partnership has fizzled out, now the other school is co-ed.

(I've noticed that quite a few all-boys schools have become co-ed but very few all-girls schools have).

My husband went to an all-boys day school, with a co-ed sixth form, so as we're both products of a (mainly) single-sex education it's something we always planned to do with our children. Indeed our two sons (14 and 7) were both in an all-boys school before we moved to the States. However, we're now living in the suburbs of Pittsburgh, and there are only two single-sex schools in Pittsburgh (and indeed within a 30 mile radius of where we live). These schools are Roman Catholic, and we're certainly not sending our children to those, so our sons are now attending a co-ed private school in Pittsburgh, and our oldest daughter (4) will be starting in the pre-school there in September.

Things are a bit different here though, because in the US system, you usually have to take at least three years of maths and science in high school, and if you want to get into a good college you're advised to take four years of each. In fact the school our sons are attending, you HAVE to take four years of maths and science, so our daughters (if they get places) will have to take those subjects. So there won't be any question of them feeling like they can't take those subjects, because they're seen as "male" subjects, as they'll have no choice. I kind of like that, if I'm honest.

I went to an all girls school for part of my education. It was an empowering experience why I saw lots of girls achieve amazing things that they may not have had the opportunity to do if it had been mixed. We were also less inhibited and I thoroughly enjoyed it, much more than my mixed school experience.

You get popular girls in all schools, middle, drifters, techies, unfortunately different ones. My contemporaries at girls only were fixated with which boy was cool, and which girl wasn't. To a far greater degree than my coed contemporaries.

Nowadays with gang type, hip hop/gangsta cool, fb/Instagram and selfie there's a new media culture that girl peer pressure can really thrive off. With girls it wasn't about what had you done but how cool you were and therefore who liked you (slut wasn't cool). It's more 'onion' levels than boy direct pressure.

All parents need to be mindful it's simply my own experience that girls only need support in subtler ways.

A lot is down to the school.

My RC girls school was interested in turning out the next generation of wives and mothers.

The girls' school was also on the opposite side of town to the boys school and there was no interaction between the two.

OP

Pick the best school for your dd.

I'm not sure DH would have been any good at all with women if he hadn't had a sister and gone to a mixed sixth form.

He's a rather the mad scientist and not very sociable.

Fortunately his area turned comprehensive and his boys grammar became a mixed Comp and a separate mixed six-form collage.

I felt more pressure on the boyfriend front at my girls school than the boys school I joined for sixth form. Mainly because the reality of meeting a whole pack of boys meant that I quickly realized that they were quite ordinary, whereas before that they were a bit exotic, and so more desirable. In the classroom I was amazed at how badly behaved the boys were, but I think that was because they were very privileged and considered themselves better than the teachers.

I loved my girls school, it was truly life changing and I had a fabulous education. Not sure how I feel about them in general but my experience was great

Fozz - I too have two boys and agree with both or your last sentences.

DS1 in particular enjoyed being in a predominantly girls only school. It helped him focus. It was calm. If you have an all boys school it can be chaotic unless you have a very tight control on certain types of laddish behaviour. It can be weird too. I went to an all boys school and a male only environment can be very strange indeed.

Boys definitely benefit from being with girls albeit with the attendant pressure to 'have a girlfriend'.

I would add that a friend who is a single parent chose to send her rather shy only daughter to a mixed independent instead of a single sex school, largely because otherwise she would have grown up with very little contact with males.

Whilst it might not be a very politically correct or constructive view, I'd agree with the comments upthread that a single sex school is (on the whole) best for girls, and a mixed school is better for most boys.

I went to a mixed prep school, then a girls' selective independent to 18. It was quite a rarified environment, but on balance I really benefitted from the lack of pressure to have a boyfriend/impress boys/ fit a stereotype. If I'd had girls, I'd probably have sent them to a single sex school.

However, I have 2 boys and we've chosen a mixed school, largely because we feel that the girls have a civilising effect and a mixed classroom provides a better environment for learning. We had briefly considered a selective boys' grammar, but DS1 (then aged 9) said he thought a classroom with only boys would be weird.

I had the same experience as thatbloodywoman

I went to an small all girls' boarding school, plus I have a terrible relationship with my father so no male role model to be proud of. As a result I was completely intimated by men at university and unable to communicate with them. So it's not just school life but how that combines and relates to home influences.

I'm a feminist and confident but it's been a long road to get here.

It called 'diamond' because if you imagine a diamond shape drawn on paper the lines join up at top and bottom of the shape but furthest apart in the middle.

That is a graphical description of how girls and boys are joined together in Primary (bottom) and sixth form (top) but apart in the middle years.

I went to a girls' primary and a different girls' secondary. The primary lacked ambition and I envied the competitive, challenging environment of my brother's boys' primary. My secondary school was fantastic and I wold send my DD to a similar girls' school if I could, but there aren't any near us. I have also taught, but only in mixed schools, and if you can avoid the huge amount of sexual tension/harassment between years 7-11, then it would be a good thing.

The data showing that girls do better in single sex environments and boys in mixed makes me really want to send DD to a girls school, why should her results suffer to improve those of boys?

I would be particularly wary of ex boys' schools that take some girls, but not 50/50. I am not at all sure that being in the minority is a good thing for those girls.

rats! sorry about the double post!

I had a 'diamond' education (weird term, but there you go) mixed primary, single sex secondary and then went to a boys boarding school with girls in the sixth form. dh went to a boys secondary. We both agreed that we would make sure our children went to co-ed right through. In fact we moved areas partly because all of our local secondary schools were single sex.

Part of that is because we wanted our children to go to the same school, but mostly because we were uncomfortable with the idea of segregation and neither of us felt particularly advantaged by single sex schooling. Plus personally I much prefer operating in a mixed environment, in my experience the more diversity the better, and growing up given the choice I was more likely to be friends with boys than girls.

One of the things I found concerning is that when I was at my girls school we all used to meet up with a bunch of boys who were looking back really quite a nasty lot, but we were so fixated on them being boys that we put up with a lot of shit.

Anyway our children are doing well at their mixed comp, dd is at the top of most of her classes and reports no issues with being dominated or abused (we've had far more issues with girl related crap). In the school system we are in math is compulsory right through, and everyone has to take a science and a social science too so there's no choice to drop them.

Minnie, I realise sexual bullying can happen at girls' schools. I was just giving the observation that it happened much less at my girls' school than at my co-ed one.

In my experience, a co-ed school provides a more conducive environment for sexist bullying. The dynamic at mine was that many boys targeted the girls for harassment and worse, the girls learnt that they were potential targets because they were girls, and many then targeted other girls in an effort to to avoid being targeted themselves, and because they had internalised all the misogyny that was freely tolerated.

'Slut' was a constant epithet, you felt acutely that you could be judged and condemned at all times because you were female, and yet, you were supposed to take part in sexual activity or risk being uncool - none of this was present at my all-girls school. I can't speak for what goes on at other girls' schools, obviously.

I had a 'diamond' education (weird term, but there you go) mixed primary, single sex secondary and then went to a boys boarding school with girls in the sixth form. dh went to a boys secondary. We both agreed that we would make sure our children went to co-ed right through. In fact we moved areas partly because all of our local secondary schools were single sex.

Part of that is because we wanted our children to go to the same school, but mostly because we were uncomfortable with the idea of segregation and neither of us felt particularly advantaged by single sex schooling. Plus personally I much prefer operating in a mixed environment, in my experience the more diversity the better, and growing up given the choice I was more likely to be friends with boys than girls.

One of the things I found concerning is that when I was at my girls school we all used to meet up with a bunch of boys who were looking back really quite a nasty lot, but we were so fixated on them being boys that we put up with a lot of shit.

Anyway our children are doing well at their mixed comp, dd is at the top of most of her classes and reports no issues with being dominated or abused (we've had far more issues with girl related crap). In the school system we are in math is compulsory right through, and everyone has to take a science and a social science too so there's no choice to drop them.

Um.... Sexual bullying (do you mean "have you done it /with whom/ how far etc) is as possible in a girls school as a mixed one. I'm quite confused by your view that a girls only school it wouldn't happen. They do still know boys and interact with them.....?!? Just not in actual class. Girls are quite capable of sexual peer pressure regardless of actually being near boys at school....

Around our way (and indeed around many places) the schools where girls do best are single sex and I prefer that. My daughters were at top 10 schools - all were single sex girls. It works really well. There is plenty of chance to meet boys out of school and on school coaches and their brothers' friends.

I went to a co-ed school for the first two years of high school and then to a single-sex school for the rest.

The difference between them was like night and day, in terms of sexism and sexual harassment and intellectual/academic encouragement. Sexual harassment from boys was common at the first school and totally normalised. Girls too absorbed the misogynist atmosphere and often bullied one another cruelly. There was a constant fear of being labelled a 'slut' and at the same time pressure to participate in sex (even though we were only 12-14).

At the girls' school there was none of the relentless sexism, and a general low level of bullying (can't say whether that would go for all girls schools). We were encouraged to excel academically and there was just more freedom to be dorky, intellectual, or pursue whatever interests you had without being worried about what you looked like and whether the boys approved of you.

Flora brings up a very good point, though. But it seems unfair to me that girls should have to be educated in an environment in which they are constantly diminished in order to ameliorate boys' sense of entitlement.

So, I would support co-education being the norm IF the government and education system committed to recognising that sexism is a systemic problem in schools and instituted strong programs to eliminate it. That includes not just insisting all schools take a no-tolerance approach to sexual harassment and sexist language, but actually monitoring how much time teachers give girls vs boys, raising teachers' awareness of how their attitudes create a discriminatory atmosphere in the classroom, etc. UK Feminista has a 'Sexism in Schools' campaign - that seems like a good start.

I went to an all girl's grammar school. There was no weight given to 'boy's' subjects or 'girl's' subjects, so there were a lot more girls in STEM options than friends in coed schools had, it was also expected that girls would go on and study whatever they wanted to. Sadly, I was unable to break my home conditioning and didn't go on to further education, because I was supposed to marry well, but that's a different story.

I was terribly badly bullied as well, but that was more the girls in my year, who, because I had been to a private school, decided that I was too big for my boots, than single sex schools per se. I've never been much of a round peg.

my point is that you need to look at the individual schools

I agree - whether or not single sex or mixed schooling is better overall doesn't mean a particular individual school will be good or bad. And even if it's good, it might not be the right school for your child.

I am also pondering this. Where I live my children are likely to get a single sex school at secondary. I see the benefit of not being subjected to sexist abuse or expectations at school (not exactly a hard thing!), but sadly I dont think that happens at the local state girls school my children would be likely to go to. Their results don't show a greater take up of science or maths at A level, they appear (from seeing them on their way to and from school everyday and from two occasions when I've been in the school in the day) to be very concerned with the way they look and from the conversations overheard tey seem very keen on policing the way each other appears to the boys at the twinned school.

I went to a mixed comp. Our school had faults. There were some sexist comments and some sexist expectations, but we had an equal take up of sciences and maths by girls and boys (possibly more girls in maths). I didn't feel that there was anything I couldn't do and I wasn't trying to find my feet with boys when I went to university. Although there were issues, we also had some strong feminist voices (teachers and students) and, at least for me and those of us who got on the university track, there was a lot of support and encouragement to follow our talents and dreams as much as any of the boys. I had a lot of male and female frieds and still do, and I never felt I had to have a boyfriend or change the way I was to attract one.

At university I noticed that quite a few of my friends from all-girls schools were all at sea with relationships, and put up with some horrendous treatment to a much greater extent than those from mixed schools. Also, I found it common that the girls were sent to schools that fit around their brothers' schooling or that took a back seat to their brothers'. For instance I had quite a few female friends who had been sent to state schools while their brothers had been sent to private schools, and otheres who had moved school because their parents had wanted their brothers to go somewhere else. None of my male friends had had a sister sent somewhere more expensive than their school, nor were any of them moved to accomodate their sisters. When we look at what families spend as a nation on their children we see time and again that they spend more on boys than girls. Splitting children up for their education makes it easier to entrench that. So I think there are some good reasons to be cautious of single sex education.

But despite my good experience at a mixed sex school and my concern about the quality of the local single-sex schools I also know women who went to great ones and their education was fantastic and they tried things they don't think they would ever have tried if it hadn't been for the envirnment they were educated in. Also my niece has just started at an excellent one which her mother chose in large part because she was being teased in some lessons by boys because she was a girl and the teachers did nothing about it.

Most of that is anecdotal, but my point is that you need to look at the individual schools, not just whether they are girls schools or mixed schools. And you need to think about why you are sending your daughter (and why your ex wants to send your daughter to a particular school. On the whole my preference would be - Mixed-sex school with a strong equality ethos > single sex school with a strong equality ethos > don't send them to the crap schools of either bent!

Flora I work full time (with small kids) and am in an industry where actually, things are OK re sexes. It's not a competition, I work with people IYSWIM.

This is probably different in different lines of work.

I don't think the problems are due to schooling though. The fact that many women leave the workforce after children is not due to schooling, it's to do with a load of other stuff.

IME girls in a single sex environment aren't limited, like they are in the rest of society and everything. It's a good thing.

Like rainbows & guides & the WI or whatever. In a sexist society, females can blossom when out of the sight of oppressors.