Minister for Sport's opinion about women's sports.. gah

I don't think that ds and her schoolfriends look very radiant after a 90 min ballet class.

Sweaty exhausted having pushed themselves to the limit.

However she would have loved for dance to have been recognised as a serious form of physical activity at her previous school as would some of the boys at her current school.

She dreaded PE each week. Thankfully she doesn't have to endure it any more.

If you listen / watch any BBC sports section, women hardly get a look in. The presenter on BBC breakfast is female but the coverage is predominantly football, cricket and rugby. Plus the horse racing selection on the Today program.

Daenerys do you think part of the answer could be the BBC et al actually broadcasting women's sport? That in turn will create a fanbase and "legitimize" (sp) the women's sport? (imagine if the interest in the women's boxing and tae quan do for example in London 2012 had been taken advantage of)

itshardthinkingofanickname I just wondered if the link was working, nothing more! don't expect everyone to watch it - goodness knows we all have busy lives
Yes there is an AWFUL lot of prejudice against boys who do ballet. Billy Elliot was very close indeed to the truth - despite being set in the 80's it's very much the same today.

I opened it - but had other things to do. Ballet is not just for girls - but I bet there's still a lot of prejudice against boys if they do it. I wonder how close Billy Elliot was to the truth

nigella the reality for most sports women is that there aren't that many 'fans' of their sport.

Most people see women's sports as being not as good as mens, and it's really hard to get a legitimate audience for women's sport.

So, a lot of the crowd tend to be friends and family. We'd all like the majority of the audience to be fans of the sport, but the reality is that there just aren't enough 'fans of the sport' for this to be possible.

I'm willing to bet that most of the men in the audience are related to or involved with those participating and that it's probably not a drooling mass of mac wearing pervs as some would suggest....

big deal - the men in the audience are either relations or involved with the cheerleaders.
If I was a sportswoman I'd want the majority of the audience to be fans of the sport.

itshardthinkingofanickname did you watch the link or did it not work?

check this response out

laura what a bizarre statement.

Cheerleading is a really tough discipline. In it's nature, it's a 'showy' sport - much like figure skating, weightlifting etc. Part of the design of the sport is to 'show off' your skills.

Stop dismissing cheerleading. It is a valid sport.

For goodness sake of course they are there to arouse men. That is entirely what it's about. It's ridiculous to suggest otherwise. It's like pole dancing and stripping. Of course they can do it if they want but them do it with their eyes open. I am not saying there is anything wrong with pleasing men - it's how most women eat in marriages where a man earns and they don't. It's how they caught a husband by being pleasing to the eye and how they ensure he comes back to them every night.

we should be encouraging and supportive of all women who participate in any sport of their choosing, not degrading them by suggesting their sport is only there to benefit men.

This sums it up for me. If you want to play football or rugby, get out there & do it, but don't dismiss someone else's choice of sport just because it doesn't appeal to you or you believe it's totally for the benefit of men.

As an aside, does anyone happen to know the composition of the spectators at a cheerleading tournament? I'm willing to bet that most of the men in the audience are related to or involved with those participating and that it's probably not a drooling mass of mac wearing pervs as some would suggest....

They are there to arouse men. That is not sport in my book. well I suppose it is a kind of sport,... but not the sort we mean. My daughter last year was chosen to play a sport for England. They were on Sky Sports last week for the first time, first time in 12 months, because they are a women's sport not a men's sport.

Oh dear...

I did wince when I briefly switched on the women's half-pipe from Sochi and heard two male commentators commenting on one of the athlete's style:

'...yes, I probably shouldn't say this but she rides like a girl. She has a very feminine, elegant look to her style...'

I thought it was going to be the final scene from Billy Elliot

First of all, ballet is not sport.
It is Art.

secondly, look at this and tell me it's just for girls
www.youtube.com/watch?v=s03a7dUUZ-I

There you go, more women in politics will shake up the system and empower women as never before.
Or not.

Our primary school introduced cheerleading club as basically the only sporty club for girls. I was furious. The school has no outside space (central London) and sport requires extra effort - ie, going to a park to play football. The fact that this was their effort really made me cross.

I don't really care if cheerleaders are fit and healthy - I'm not happy that my school's take on sport for girls is at heart about being decorative for men. Gymnastics etc exist for themselves, not for cheering on the men. I'd be happy for sport to include, swimming, yoga etc but not cheerleading.

scallops you get male cheerleaders too.

This isn't really the argument, my point is that as women, we should be encouraging and supportive of all women who participate in any sport of their choosing, not degrading them by suggesting their sport is only there to benefit men.

I always wonder about the make up and glamour of ice skaters. Is there a need?

And I was really pissed off to hear the male commentator express how glamourous one of the Canadian bob sled team looked - and there was an implication in the pre commentary that she had been picked for her looks, not her talent.

Something you would never hear about men nor would you hear a female commentator say a man looked handsome.

"That's most sports then if you want to go the base level (the benefit being that men invented played them)." Well yes if you want to go down to that level. But women's canoeing wasn't started as an encouragement for male canoeists. They aren't doing a completely different sport in completely different gear as an ego boost for the men.

one day no sport will need anyone to wear makeup.

don't see male gymnasts and curlers slapped up. Why do the women feel the need to do it?

But it isn't just historically that it was for the benefit for men, Daenerys. There is a present day context. Women cheerlead at men's sports. Not vice versa. I am not doubting or criticising the athleticism and skill of those involved. And I am aware of the competitive element of cheerleading away from the sports field. I think that is a really positive move. Nor am I criticising individuals that do it. I'm looking at it from how it affects women as a class.

However, the main problem I have is that femininity = what you look like and that is reflected in the sports she chose. All of those sports have some level of required appearance and performance of femininity. Instead of tackling the reasons why women don't want to do sport Grant is upholding those reasons but saying here are some sports you can do while conforming to the patriarchy. Nothing changes at anything other than a superficial level.

Critiquing a sport that was designed for the benefit of men is not as degrading as objectifying women.

That's most sports then if you want to go the base level (the benefit being that men invented played them).

Cheerleading is just as valid as gymnastics, ballet, dance, beach volleyball to name a few.

So what is "feminine"? Surely to God in the 21st century we should not have some meaningless pre-definition that says "X" is feminine and "Y" is not?

Where does this definition come from? Who does it come from?

And what sort of woman gives a shiny shit whether she fits this trivial arbitrary so-called standard set by who knows whom for who knows what irrelevant reason?

I got a telling off on this board ages back from one of the radical feminists (no longer posting) for saying that I disliked the word "femininity" as, to me, it had a come to epitomise the trivial and the superficial. By that I meant the eyelash fluttering mimsyness of a certain type of behaviour among some girls and women designed to appeal to men.

By all means do whatever sport or activity you want, whether its cheerleading, gymnastics or ballet but do them for the right reasons - because you enjoy them, they are fun and you have talent - not so you come out of it without a bead of sweat and with glossy lippy intact i.e. the perfect "feminine" specimen.

GRRRRRRRR

And what's wrong with zumba?

And anyway men like zumba too.

And just what on earth?

If teenaged girls are so concerned about their appearance that they don't participate in sport, then the root cause of that needs to be tackled. Not say oh well the boys can do football and the girls can do cheerleading job done, bob's your uncle.