One woman on all BBC comedy panel shows - I'm not sure what I think

hy not 50% of guests. You know actually achieve equality. Radical I know. What am I thinking of

This is what I was thinking..and I know you will have someone say.. oh well there are fewer female comedians...we'll have to get an inferior female comic to make up numbers.

But no that's not true.. you just need to find 2 females who are funny out of all the comedians (for say QI) and even if there were only 50 female comedians compared to hundreds of male comedians.. Women still make up 50% of the viewers and we should be represented.

I refuse to believe that only white males are funny.. in fact I can think of a few who make me want to gauge my eyes out. But they are allowed to benefit form sexism and racism..but it's tokenism if a black woman gets on the telly.. grrr.

The merit based argument would be fine if it was a level playing field, but it's not, so agree that positive discrimination is needed to kick things into touch a bit.

I do think there's a tendency to react differently to male and female comedians we don't like - with men it's usually more 'they're not to my taste', whereas with women it seems to be 'they're rubbish', as though the men are obviously funny to someone, but the woman is just inherently unfunny.

TinyTwoTears I was just going to post exactly the same thing.

Mock the Week is awful, as you say the Ben just talk over the women. In the microphone stand up bit I've actually seen female contributors meekly step back and allow the men another turn, it makes my blood boil.

Surely the production team have looked at tapes of past shows and could discreetly order the men to have some respect. Just because you are very old hands and very quick doesn't mean you should walk all over less experienced panelists of either sex.

I reckon what they should aim for is parity over a series - so you could get any of all male, all female, one man/woman or even split. Would be interesting to see how the different dynamics worked!

I saw an episode of QI the other day which actually had a majority of women!! And they were great too.

It was very cheering, but at the same time depressing that that was such a surprise and a rarity. But I'm hoping it might be the first of more such...

i think the men on these shows already know that saying something sexist or offensive is pretty much career suicide - but there is certainly an element at times of disrespect or as you say, talking over the women. Women also don't tend to resort to bland sexual based jokes for cheap laughs so they are somehow seen as less funny.

this is why i think that in a show where there are 4 panel places there should be 2 women and one of those should be a "regular". Someone who is a team leader or there every week or the host.

Instead of saying at least one female guest every week - why not make that person one of the regular panel members, like Alan Davies. the only person i can think of who existed in this capacity was Ulrika Johnson (but she was certainly there as eye candy at the start). or maybe Victoria Coren.

I wonder if having a "token" woman who is talked over by all the male participants will actually be counterproductive. Will the behaviour seen on television be modelled as normal, which will further perpetuate the behaviour of talking over women generally, in society?

Perhaps, instead of having token women, the Beeb and other channels should have policies of inclusion, whereby, if male panellists do tend to talk over women, they will not continue to be booked.

I think the concept of "women aren't as funny" is that whole Ginger Rogers did it backwards in high heels thing. A woman has to be twice as good as a man (in general) to be thought adequate.

Here's Jo Brand, in 2010, on why women find panel shows so hard

www.theguardian.com/culture/2009/jun/10/television-panel-shows-jo-brand

If she feels intimidated imagine what it's like for younger or less experienced comics.

I find women on programmes like Would I Lie to you funny because they get their chance to say something.

Some quiz formats (such as mock the week) are particularly bad for the man-talking-over-woman syndrome. Its usually better when people are asked specific questions.

I would like to point out that I have no idea whether your dislike of Shappi K. has anything to do with this of course, CaptainG. You're more than welcome to your own dislikes and likes.

My thoughts were about when there's a pattern in society like women being judged less funny than men, there is a chance that there is some sexism involved, on the whole. Not necessarily in one particular case though.

Similar to when hoards of women "choose" to stay at home after having children, but men on the whole don't, this choice may not be the free choice that people perceive it to be. Stereotypical gender roles permeate many of our choices and judgements

Well yes, you would hope they would put someone on because they are reasonably funny, and not just because they are a woman.

I agree that of course what is funny is subjective, but I do also think we judge humour coming from men and women differently. I think there is a bit more to it than it just being a personal preference for a type of humour. I have a feeling that the way we perceive women (as different from men), which includes the sexism that we have been ingrained with in this society, affects it.

To have rude humour for example may be much harder for women, I think, until we are used to this particular woman doing it, then it can become funny like it can be when a man does it. But secondly, when a woman isn't funny (enough), I think we judge her much harder than when a man isn't very funny, and are much more ready to dismiss her as a comedian than we would with a man. Much like many women in a man-dominated area, really.

I think the demand that it's fine to have women comedians on the shows as long as they're funny is telling. Do we judge the men comedians on the shows like that? No, we just accept that they're comedians, who we may or may not find funny

Actually, I was saying that they should be funny rather than any old person just chucked on there to make up numbers in the female camp.

And I don't know about you, but if one of the male comedians isn't funny I turn to OH & say "he's shit, hope they don't get him on again" which is as much as I can do! Unfortunately, I seem to do that more with female comedians than I do with male - maybe they're too subtle or clever for me?

Much of that is personal anyway, as I quite like Sarah Millican & Joe Brand for example, whereas I just don't find Shappi Khorsandi funny at all (to name but one) and mock the week seems to almost go out of it's way to find desperately unfunny female participants....

Interesting. I watched an old episode of mock the week last night and Lauren laverne was on it. She was very quiet and nearly every time she tried to talk someone talked over her. It was infuriating.
I've seen it happen before with just one woman panellist. Maybe if there was more than one woman this wouldn't happen so much.

I think the demand that it's fine to have women comedians on the shows as long as they're funny is telling. Do we judge the men comedians on the shows like that? No, we just accept that they're comedians, who we may or may not find funny.

I believe that this is why women are not getting to be on shows as much, and why they are not getting the success they deserve as much as men. They are judged a lot more critically than men.

I think there are some really funny older women who just don't get a look in on Television, the bigger woman from Kim and Aggie (is it Kim?) She is hilarious, and other older women that have appeared on reality TV shows, and are genuinely funny. They never appear as panelists.

'Several of the shows in question (eg HIGNFY) have non-comedian guests.'

yes - in that instance, the regular Ian Hislop isn't a 'comedian' as such. Sometimes Paul Merton is the only person on it who is a comedian.

The News Quiz on R4 quite often has more than one female panellist, in addition to Sandi chairing it. The 'regular panellists' are 5 men and 4 women so it's doing better than most and proves it can be done. Perhaps it's a bit easier on the radio for some reason?

Oops
Standup comedians. Several of the shoes in question (eg HIGNFY) have non-comedian guests.

And bear in mind that not all guests need to be standup c

Within Science Fiction conventions (traditionally male dominated, obvs) the phrase in the air is Panel Parity. All conventions have been under pressure to achieve this and all have felt required to produce a statement on what they're doing and how well they've progressed. Paul Cornell (witty guest, much in demand) blogged about it here.

at least that many on shows....

As long as they put funny female comedians on the shows they'll be alright.

I have no idea what percentage of comedians are female, but it'd make sense to up the number on shows to match (assuming the women want to appear in the first place) - so if 30% of comedians are female, I'd like to see that many on the shows......

Why not 50% of guests. You know actually achieve equality. Radical I know. What am I thinking of

This is all just s bit benevolent and men still maintaining privilege but we'll let the little ladies know we're thinking about them.

I think any women on these panels shows is a good thing but some just are not very good in the same way some men are not very good - shappi khorsandi I'm looking at you. No doubt it is harder for women to get into comedy - I wonder how women fare on the comedy club circuit? As that's where they need to be able to make a living as do men. If you can't impress with a live audience night after night then you can't really be a famous mainstream comedian. Channel 4 seem to be pretty good at getting women onto the panel shows - 8 out of 10 cats and would I lie to you always seems to be well represented and I don't see them making a massive song and dance about it?

I'd also prefer average 30% across the board but this is a good start. Merit clearly isn't working.