One woman on all BBC comedy panel shows - I'm not sure what I think

Linda Smith

I was thinking exactly the same, she was wonderful.

I'm in two minds about positive discrimination anyway, but this idea seems like the worst of both worlds - either leave it and let whoever's in charge of picking panels get on with it without making them stick to arbitrary rules, or give a proper proportion to women - as people were saying above, something like 30%, or 50% across a series, would be much more effective than this patronising token woman shite. I totally agree with whoever said above that this is basically just a way for the BBC execs to try and keep the 'little women' happy, and this idea actually makes me more angry than the lack of representation in general/

Linda Smith

Ken Livingstone was crap as a host of HIGNFY. They should immediately stop booking white middle aged politicians. Oh, wait...

I like aisling bea who has popped up on a few shows - she has made some of the overused male comedians look utterly ridiculous. I've seen Victoria coren do this a few times as well. It's a breath of fresh air.

It could be the next big thing - a bit like satire in the 1990's which revolutionised comedy.

I was just thinking about the fact that 'alternative comedy' in the 1980s was partly political but mainly not explicitly sexist, but maybe the sexism just became less blatant.

I think some men do the 'stream of consciousness, no obvious punchline' humour as well, but maybe it needs more space than a panel show gives for that kind of humour. I listened to the NewsQuiz (love that show) and they were talking about airing cupboards at the time weren't they? I liked the loom in the study bit as well. I always thought 'Green Wing' had some lovely female humour in it and the format of that show made it possible. There was an emotional connection with the characters as well as the sketch show elements that really worked.

I also think men are very hostile to women that challenge them in any way - and many wouldn't want to share the spotlight with a funny woman as it undermines them. In fact, I am quite alarmed by how men will only let women get so far in anything be it a debate, their career or comedy - before they start to get twitchy. In my experience it's quite clear their egos feel easily under threat.

That's interesting what you say Sticky - I like the idea women do have their own genre of comedy that people aren't really tuned into at the moment - probably due to the fact that women aren't 'supposed' to be funny. It could be the next big thing - a bit like satire in the 1990's which revolutionised comedy.

Ah ok, got you. I have seen threads elsewhere about there being no funny women comics (general agreement) and I think that's because promoters / producers don't book the good up and coming women but stick with the regulars. I listen to a lot of radio so hear the funny women who don't make it onto telly. Sue Perkins is okay but her exposure is way in excess of her talent, but she's on the list, the female equiavlent of Marcus bloody Brigstock.

Blokes seem to make it through a lot easier, whether brilliant (Rhod Gilbert) or bland (John Bishop) the TV doors are open.

I've mentioned her before but the funniest episode of I'm Sorry I Haven't a Clue I have heard was entirely dominated by Denise Coffey, it was hilarious but I don't think she's been on since and this was about 15 years ago!

I'm not talking about the audiences Vivien who are usually open-minded people IMO. But I've heard comedy promoters come out with sexist rubbish unfortunately.

I heard the News Quiz on Friday, there were two women and two men panellists, and Sandi Toksvig hosting - it was absolutely brilliant!
There was a part when the women segued off into something and Phill Jupitus shouted something like "What random path have you gone down now?" They talked in a way women often talk, and he felt able to tell them off for it as though they shouldn't do it. Made me think about different styles of talking and how the male patterns are very entrenched in these shows.
Iplayer link here

I used to watch all the standup shows and gave up because the misogyny left a really bad taste, particularly Mock the Weak (Stewart Lee joke!). If they can change them round so that I can actually watch them again I'll be very happy. I like the series average idea - I wouldn't watch a show I think of as misogynistic just because it had a single woman on.

better it doesn't seem to upset heterosexual white men that they get all the jobs despite not always having the best credentials [shrugs]

Stupid. How would anyone feel knowing that they got anything because they filled someones quota? Talk about self esteem issues!

I see what you're driving at winterhat but is that based upon recent experience? I wouldn't say I'm a regular but have been to a couple of comedy stand-up shows for each of the last few years and the audiences aren't remotely hostile, they're encouraging and out for a good time.

I've heard tales of the old Comic Store being a bit rough on newcomers but my one time there (in the audience of course) it was a very pleasant atmosphere, most at tables and eating. Jongleurs ?Clapham was more lively as the drink was flowing more freely but again not a hostile atmosphere.

I'm sure that "back in the day" of the working man's club circuit it was incredibly hard for women to be stand-ups, the successes I know from that era (well, I can only really think of Hilda Baker, amybe Beryl Reid?) would have needed to be tough.

Some men do feel threatened by powerful women IMO Vivien. They think women should know their place and stop trying to take their jobs! A female stand-up comedian is likely to be opinionated, strong, in a position of power over her audience, etc. Some men don't like that, as with any other job where they may want to bring down strong women.

I don't think anybody feels "threatened" by funny women winterhat!

Great shout for Pam Ayres Tiggy, there's somebody who fills any programme she's on with laughter.

I'll add to my listing of under-appreciated women comics with Mel Hudson and Vicki Pepperdine, tremendously talented. Vicki's gone into acting now and I'm not sure what's Mel's up to. Their shows get repeated on 4extra every so often, the first one especially is a tour de force, right up there with the League of Gentlemen's first show.

And "women aren't funny" because the men in charge don't find them funny.

Or because they feel threatened by funny women.

It's not just comedians either. Some panel games might be just for comedians, like Mock The Week, but others are for intelligent and witty people: QI, HIGNFY, Just A Minute, etc. Ideal for Lauren Laverne, Victorian Coren-Mitchel, Pam Ayres, and so on.

I find it hard because I can't stand the thought of a woman getting a place purely because she's a woman.

Argh. She wouldn't be. However women are currently not getting jobs because they are women. And "women aren't funny" because the men in charge don't find them funny.

If you can really look at a film or a comedy panel show and think that yes, 80% of the time this role would be ruined by actually allowing a women in I suggest there is something wrong with you.

Agree with LordFocus. There is sexism throughout the comedy industry, from the lowliest gigs upwards, which ensures it's harder for women to get to TV level in the first place. Of course there are more than enough women to do TV panel shows, but the problem isn't just limited to TV. If women were proportionally represented at all comedy venues it would make a huge difference.

The comedy scene is dominated by men (agents, producers, promoters etc) and they largely get to pick the acts that get the air time. It could be argued that they may not make the best choices when picking female comics - for instance they may go for a pretty face, or not find a woman's observational satire relevant to their own lives - and therefore not find it funny. The problem would be intensified with positive discrimination - if they have to find one funny woman then they may just choose one that is a good side-kick for the male acts to bounce off. The cynic in me suspects it suits the men on the panel not to have a funny woman as it may juxtapose against their own styles. Maybe women comedians are chosen to make the other male contestants look good rather than make any impact in their own right. It all comes down to having to play by men's rules. I don't think the producers of these panel shows have the best interests of the female comedy scene at heart - they just want to pull in the viewers with the same old faces and material and avoid any discrimination controversy.

Really sorry that should be MamPingu!

MamaPigs, you fell uncomfortable about women getting a place on a panel because they are a woman (which lets face it wouldn't actually be the case, it would be because she is funny and has talent but just not opportunity) yet you are fine with the blatant recruitment of men onto the panels because of who they know.

So basically positive discrimination is acceptable for men but not women?

Exactly Pingu. I hate it when women try and win favour with men by reinforcing negative gender stereotypes.

"There are some very funny female comedians, but if they aren't available for example a funny male comedian should stand in rather than an unfunny female comedian."

What is funny or unfunny is personal taste. Why is it that this is accepted for male comedians, whereas for female comedians it becomes a character trait?

It has been said before, but I'll say it again: It's not a level playing field. Women are judged much more harshly than men. When a women isn't funny on occasion, she becomes an "unfunny female comedian". When a male isn't funny on occasion, it becomes a matter of taste. His comedianship isn't questioned, however.

We need more women that are funny at least to some people's taste on telly to create the level playing field, eventually. Because only if we get used to seeing them we will learn to judge them to the same standards as we judge men.

So basically, we need perceived positive discrimination to achieve this. I say perceived, because I think positive discrimination is not really positive discrimination. It is a conscious effort to not negatively discriminate, which is the default.

Brilliant! She's doing us a big favour there!