What would you do if a university student wanted to bring her newborn to class?

I would just leave it up to the student to decide whether it is in her best interests to present with the baby or make other arrangements. She surely knows better what her personal circumstances are and what the consequences will be than a bunch of random people on the Internet.

I have seen babies and children in lectures, the university library etc and honestly don't think a lot of students would finish their degrees if there were lots of people doing this ooh health and safety, are we insured, somebody else (but not me personally) might complain and we have to think of their entirely speculative feelings sort of thing. It very much reminds me of the arguments that rumble on about Muslim science students wearing the hijab in labs, students with disabilities requiring a note taker with a lap top etc, etc and of course every argument that has ever been put forward for why women shouldn't be educated. Yes, there are potential problems in all these situations, but there are with everything. Too much of this is assuming the worst when it will probably all be fine.

I've even seen staff to out and take scientific data on field trips with young babies in slings, which is their decision. All this woman is doing is giving a presentation, which she already believes she can handle with a baby. The most likely outcome is that if the baby does wake up and make noise mid presentation, another student would take it out, because most people are not self absorbed. Which means one student would miss the learning experience of this woman's presentation, as opposed to everyone missing it if the student can't turn up because she has a newborn.

I brought my baby to a few classes. Small groups, with agreement from group members and teachers.

The class was one which was rearranged from the original timetable to be after the creche closing time.

He sat at my feet and played during a couple of additional revision sessions.

As a tiny newborn when dh and I were both students we used to swap him in the corridors between classes so whoever wasn't in class had him. However every fortnight there was an hour where we overlapped and I took him to class until dh could come and get him.

So long as the student leaves if he is being disruptive then fine.

However, for her presentations she might struggle a bit more. If he stays asleep/quiet then I have no doubt she could present but there is no guarantee he won't decide to poo/fuss/want to feed at the wrong time and it won't just be her work suffering it will be her whole group so it might be more practical for her if she can get a friend to take baby for a walk or something during her presentation.

I don't understand the dodgy tummy comparison. It would be rather wonderful if you got 9 months notice of a 3 day bout of D&V!

I would really respect someone who was trying to come to classes and maintain their studies with a newborn.

I would not be impressed by someone being unable to arrange a babysitter for 2 presentations which were graded and counted towards their degree. How does she plan to take exams or go to job interviews? How on earth does she plan to study if she can't leave the child for the presentation?

I agree very much, Dusk.

I think the best ways to improve work-life balance and make work/education more family-friendly is not bringing children into work but making it possible for parents to achieve their goals without having to always physically be in work or school.

I don't think we should assume women can't do things because they have a baby. But I think assuming women can do everything the same even when they have a baby can also be damaging, because it's just not true for everyone.

Sorry if I have missed this, but is your student considering this in pregnancy, or does she now have the newborn?

I am not sure that the kindest way to manage the horrific damocles' sword that women find hovering over their heads wrt to career vs. childbearing is to say "fine, women can do everything they have to, and bring their babies". I needed maternity leave. Physically, emotionally. I needed it.

However, if she already has her baby, and is saying from a position of knowledge that she really wants a chance to present, I think the correct thing to do is allow her the chance, not to be one of those people slamming doors in faces. Bigger picture, though, it's not a solution. If someone had said to me "you can keep your job after the baby - if you come back to work straigh away - keep the newborn with you, that's fine by me" that would have amounted to dismissal.

You could try it out, if it doesn't work, there will be protests from other students and the trial fails, or it is a success and emboldens others to do similar.

I would give it a go if she wants to. I took my baby into work when she was 2 weeks old, as I had a research project that needed finishing. It worked out well, I got it finished and then went back on mat leave.

With due respect, presenting to a primary school audience and doing a university-level presentation is not the same thing.

Of course it's relevant -- how could it not be?

There's a huge difference between someone sitting in the back of the class listening to a lecture and ducking out if need be, and someone having to give an assessed presentation. I mean, I admire all of you who can stand on your head and juggle cats while breastfeeding, but not all newborns are placid little souls 24 hours a day.

Yes, there are all sorts of possible distractions in class -- and surely the goal is to limit them, for the good of all.

I don't think it has to be 'have a child and you must interrupt your studies'. Continuing your studies and being physically in the classroom are not synonymous. You can study on your own, you can see your lecturer outside of class, you can follow lectures on skype and podcasts -- all of this is still learning, without disrupting the learning of others. That seems fair to me. It might not be ideal but it is also temporary and hopefully manageable with a lot of support.

To say that if women can't bring their babies to class they can't continue their education is just so short-sighted. There are all sorts of ways to address this if you want to be creative rather than dogmatic.

I claimed I could learn Spanish on my maternity leave...

I don't think you are saying to her that you know better. You are saying that you don't know what you will be able to do to help her if she has to leave during her assessment. The chances of her having to leave, with a newborn, are, quite frankly, high.

I actually don't know what I would do in that situation. It's definitely completely different to the original question, there's a lot more at stake.

I've presented to 35 people with my 2 year old holding my hand the entire time! It was to kids at my daughters school - and my daughter was primed to entertain her sister if she caused trouble - but it was fine.

I can't see the assessed part of the students presentation being longer than 15 mins just for logistical reasons. So schedule her to speak first - and have the option of her swapping to a later slot if her baby is not asleep. Suggest
To her that she nominates a buddy to take baby out on the small off chance of a meltdown while mum is speaking.

There is a massive difference between an assessed piece of work and a lecture.

Goodness, I really hope I've misinterpreted this.

I don't think it's fair on the student to present (and be graded!!) on something while her baby is there. Have you any idea of what you'll do if the baby cries and she has to leave? What about the rest of the team she is working with?

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So she would have to actually present while caring for her newborn?

How is leaving if baby cries a realistic plan if she's presenting?

Could she do the presentation for you personally, not in front of the whole class? Then you have more flexibility.

Are these her own presentations then, camaleon?

Supporting this student does send a message to her classmates that you are supportive of motherhood

I think it's more of a question of how to support this student. Is it fair to her to say you can come, but you will have to leave (and therefore miss out) when the baby cries? Is it not fairer to look into recording things and using technology so she can do things at her own pace?

it is impossible to listen and give a lecture your full attention and look after a baby at the same time

I have given talks, attended meetings, volunteered at events, even chatted to a potential employer, all with a young baby in tow. Would have done more if I felt more places were willing to accommodate.

Sure, the baby doesn't always comply, and you need contingency plans, but it's not normally distracting :) most people will coo before/after and not during, then they're perfectly capable of paying attention to the matter in hand.

I don't see that subtext at all, Pro, at least not on this thread.

I think the distinction is between people focusing on what's best for this one student vs what's best for the class as a whole. And between people who have never met a noisy newborn in their lives vs people who do see babies as potentially very distracting.

I had a baby midway through my phd so I am well aware of the challenges of motherhood and academia. But I don't think the answer is to bring babies into the classroom. It's not really a zero-sum problem --surely we can think of much more creative approaches.