What would you do if a university student wanted to bring her newborn to class?

I didn't say a baby was more distracting than a phone call, because I think there is a distinction to be made.

To a student who is taking a phone call, it's distracting. To a student who is in pain, that is distracting. To a student who is depressed, that is distracting.

Many things distract individual students, and the thing that enables those students to succeed is a bit of understanding and help.

To a student who is in the room when a phone goes off - no, IMO, it's not wildly distracting. Why would it be? Most of my students are familiar with the sound of phones. Today, I taught a class where the fire alarm went off by accident. They paused for all of 15 seconds, stood up (as did I), but when it went off and we realized it was an error, the student who was speaking carried on mid-sentance. Why wouldn't he?

I would have absolutely no issue with a student who informed me first stepping out of class to take an important phonecall. I don't see why this is bad?

I took my DS aged two and up to occasional uni seminars and lectures. He now attends occasional meeting, ditto my 8 month old DD. Both behave brilliantly. We always leave before tiredness erupts. And the lecturer/meeting conveyor is always told in advance that they will be attending due to childcare lapses. Not asked if ok, but informed they would be there. I want to continue my studies and work, I also have a family. Sometimes the two worlds collide!!! And it is always fine. Let her come.

Surely the best way to resolve this debate would be for the OP to trial it and let us know?

LRD, if a baby is no more distracting than a phone call, I assume you let your students accept phone calls during class? They can just step out of the room, after all.

Should everyone be allowed to bring their babies to work, given that they're so non-distracting?

But perhaps those people should learn?

As has been said upthread, when women were allowed into higher education, they were 'distracting' because it was claimed men couldn't 'help' wanting to stare at them or grope them. When non-white men were allowed into the military in the US and UK, likewise, it was claimed to be a distraction.

Newborns aren't a problem normally, (see what procrastration said at 17.15) it is other people's reactions to them that cause distractions - cooing, wanting a hold etc.

I've read the thread now. I did read if before I replied to you, sorry.

I don't see what difference it makes. My student who was in pain presented. She was perfectly decent at it.

What shocks me is that it would seem it's perfectly ok to make allowances for all sorts of other issues - but not for what is essentially sexism.

I think a lot of this thread suggests people have a very low opinion of what students can manage - apparently, no noise is allowed, no disruption, even that of someone leaving the room. I wonder how people who require these working conditons ever get jobs?! Imagine how absurd you would look if you told an employer 'oh, I can work for you, but I warn you, I will be terribly distracted if anyone ever has to interrupt a presentation for an important conference call, and I can't cope with noise so no-one must ever use the phone'.

I think it is patronizing to my students to pretend this is what current undergraduates would really think.

Lrd this student will be presenting. I would be interested in your views if you have time to rtft

That does sound lovely.

A mate of mine is shortly to finish her PhD with her little one in tow, and my friend is teaching a woman who had a very unexpected baby in the second year of undergrad - she's on course for a good first.

It was some years ago and in the States, but a law school classmate of mine gave birth shortly before the end of our last year; she brought the baby to class (no one had a problem with this as far as I know), and carried her daughter in her arms when going up to receive her diploma at graduation, to a standing ovation. It was lovely.

Btw, sorry if this is stupid ... but can the class be recorded? Then she could at least listen and catch up. We record lectures here and I believe it helps.

dusk, I have taught a student who had to cope with intense pain as well as studying. It was awful, and I have no idea how she managed - but she did. No need to assume people can't multitask.

Of course it is a pity anyone is in a situation where they need to, but we do live in an imperfect world, and until these issues are sorted out, it seems unfair to penalize women for them.

Alternating activities is refreshing. It's not the same thing as trying to do 2 things at once.
Being on skype doesn't stop your baby distracting you but it does keep it away from everyone else.

Fascinated by the number if people on this thread who would apparently be fine working and doing childcare at once. What do you all do? Can you really think straight? As straight as without them?

I would a million times prefer a 4 hour clear run at a job,alone, knowing my kids were safe and happy with someone else, and then time to give them my full attention, than a whole day or even 2 trying to get through something that seems endless because I keep wiping bums and noses and answering questions. Of course the latter is cheaper.

(I mean, I've only just seen this so not catching up on the thread yet.)

I'm really sorry, I've only just seen this and I've been working from 7 this morning until about an hour ago - but I would be perfectly happy.

I teach undergraduate classes.

I would want you to talk both to me (teacher) and the course convenor. However, I would fight your corner.

You would need to leave if your baby was disturbing the lesson. But I wouldn't at all mind you coming.

Buffy -- certainly no offence to your field intended

I suppose I just really don't relate to this apparently feminist ideal of being able to take your children absolutely everywhere (health and safety excepted).

I'm more of a 'room of one's own' kind of gal. Men have been able to pursue their intellectual space and identity unencumbered for centuries, and I don't see why I shouldn't be able to as well.

My feminist agenda does not include the collective raising of children, but the equal raising of children between men and women. So I disagree that being a good feminist means I need to tolerate people's children everywhere.

"If you aren't able to dedicate your time to a university degree, why are you there?"

I'm boggling at this and similar comments.

I also went to a very good university a very long time ago, and a degree was something people fitted in between drinking, caving, rugby, drama, politics, etc. There mightn't have been many (small) children on site, but I just don't recognise this monk-like, contemplative existence some posters seem to refer to.

Well Eleanor some of us do, or with very little childcare, I took ds1 with me when tiny and once he was bigger I had the bare minimum ie only tutorials and lectures I had to attend where he was in childcare. Cost mainly as even though it was subsidized it was still expensive.

So I studied whilst he played, read whilst bfeeding and when he slept he hardly slept until he was three yes old and yes it was hard work, and I was knackered at times, but I enjoyed it and have fabulous memories of his baby and toddler years on campus, he took his first steps in the uni bar (the back bar non smoking). I made one of my very best friends during that time and we both managed to graduate babies in tow.

The system needs to be flexible, many units already (as evidenced by this thread and experiences of others) let little babies attend some lectures and seminars. Its never a long term issue, as they get bigger they can go to nursery, are easier to leave etc.

But for some parents the flexibility of being able to take a little one until old enough for nursery or in event of childcare letting you down is vital in them succeeding and completing their degree.

Is it ideal? Maybe not but life is far from ideal, we all muddle through best we can.

But you can complete studies with young children, even without childcare, hell thousands do through the OU. I had no more than four hours a week and I bust a gut keeping up with reading, getting copies of notes etc for lectures I missed. Not ideal but entirely possible.

This student wants the opportunity to try, if she tries and it doesn't work then work on option b, but letting her have a go for a few short weeks, op says til easter? May help and make her life easier.

I echo what Bertie said a few pages ago re social side etc as well.

The guide dog in my lectures used to sit and fart, it was disgusting.

What's the link between a dog and a baby?

Would you allow a pet dog in the lectures? Not a guide dog but a pet?

Some people genuinely do not have the option of "someone else to look after the baby", some people don't want that option, some people can only manage it for some of the time....none of them needs to be excluded from university.

But university is not there to step in where you can't get a baby sitter. It's there to provide you with further education.

I've got 2 degrees and I've had 2 children. I genuinely do not understand how anyone could undertake any academic study with no childcare.

DuskandShiver, yes, there are situations where for genuine health and safety reasons children can't be present. There are jobs I can't do for general health and safety reasons because I'm not physically capable, including your example of bring a surgeon. There are courses I've taught where children could not attend because they are lab based.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a wider range of students attending university. I believe that the vast majority benefit of the courses are high quality. I don't think very high academic ability is required for an MSc either. It is mostly diligence and commitment.

I personally don't think we are ever going to have a society where women don't make up the vast majority of primary carers of young children. If we were in a situation where as many men were primary carers as women, and we were using that as an excuse to exclude, discriminate and impoverish primary carers, then I would be as opposed to that as I am to the current situation and certainly wouldn't see it as a feminist achievement.

I know have to go, but think this is an interesting discussion. Apologies to the OP for going a bit off topic.