I support Page 3, who's with me?

It's not a debate if you refuse to engage.

Shouting "You lot are all prudes" while sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting La La La to drown out the multitude of reasonable points is not really engaging.

Were you ever a Page 3 model yourself? Do you have a vested interest in convincing us all that displaying yourself for men to wank over is somehow a good thing for women?

I'm very glad to hear it. This thread fills me with an urge to pick the OP up and shake her! It's good to know that ther are young women out there who can see the flaw in this kind of logic.

Still, I suppose I was probably as naive when I was single and childless.

There's nothing quite like returning to work, organising childcare, and trying to raise a child to see where the media is suckering them into a crap worldview to make you think about your views!

OP - you just don't get it. I can see that. We can probably all see that.

This is not about wanting women to cover up. It's about wanting them to know they have the choice of covering up. It's not about not wanting them to have sex, it's about wanting them to know that the choice of whether or not to have sex is theirs and theirs alone, and that society ought not to place value judgements on them for those choices.

I want new generations of young women to grow up confident in their bodies, and their minds, to be able to expect to be treated as valuable human beings and not walking talking sex toys. To have thoroughly enjoyable sexual relationships with men who want to share pleasure with them, on an equal basis.

And as long as images of women's tits are seen as 'a bit of fun', to be ogled at over a cup of tea and then thrown in the bin or used to line the parrot's cage, young women are not going to be in a position to learn that they are worth any more than that. And young men are not going to be learning it either.

Those young men are going to struggle to learn that women have sexual needs,. Jerking off over a disassociated set of tits is easy. Getting to know a woman and enjoy a fulfilling sexual relationship with her is difficult in comparison. But it gets more difficult still if society has told you that women's tits are easy to jerk off on, and you've grown up thinking that's what women are for.

So telling women they shouldn't oppose Page 3 is despite a large chorus of dissent is who limiting whose free speech?

Seems to be a confusion here between the concept of 'nakedness' and 'being sexual'

You're spouting the views of a middle aged man, Beth. Page 3 has nothing to do with female sexuality, it is about male desire. You confuse objectification with liberation. Believe me, they are completely different.

No that's not true either. There's imaginative and interesting debate going on.

And language does matter. They are right to say so.

Beth - you've got some interesting potential. Just don't be so lazy in your thinking.

Ah yes. We're doing it all wrong

Do I? If you could find some EVIDENCE of where I have said that I'd be grateful. And astonished.

No she's doesn't Beth

Yes K8 / there are some sensational young feminists out there

yy AMumInScotland it is v v depressing.

Thankfully this third wave of feminism is being heralded by women of Beth's generation. There is a fight back.

Beth, you're not young. You're a dinosaur.

Ok if that's how you feel fair enough but I personally would feel disrespected if a man wanted to spunk onto me.

Sorry - on line not on live

The fact that young women are now aping unpleasant behaviour and calling it 'equality' is indescribably depressing.

And the fact that they apparently can't tell the difference between objectification and sexual attraction isn't much better. Or the difference between sexualisation and 'sexual lliberation'.

Where exactly did we lose this generation of young women, if they can't see how badly they have been conned?

The sun has a readership of 7 million and has had a page 3 girl for 43 years.

Until the late 80s girls could start on page 3 aged 16. They also had the news in briefs belittling the intelligence of the models - dropped after the no more page 3 campaign started.

In 43 years they have had a woman of colour less than 5 times. Their idea of attractiveness is restricted to a very narrow female form - ensuring that women conform to an idealised version of womanhood. Breasts out, submissive sexual pose.

Page 3 has been used as a " gateway" by paedophiles and abusers to groom their victims. Read accounts on live how page 3 has been used to abuse before you come preaching on here about how harmless and natural it is.

The Sun considered itself so powerful that it took credit for election victories. So if it has this much influence politically it must follow that it's depiction of women via page 3 matters too. Cosmopolitan does not have that influence, what The Sun does matters. It's owned by the most powerful media mogul in the world. So stop saying a topless man is the same. It's such a weak argument.

Look OP, you're young. I know you think you're a grown up but do did I when I was your age and now I know that I wasn't. Educate yourself. Read the no more page 3 website, open your mind and your eyes and listen.

You're very black and white. Your arguments are simplistic. You conflate facts and provide no evidence.

Do your research. Develop evidence. Learn instead of dismissing everything we have tried to teach you.

every single woman I know is frequently either groped, leered at or vocally harassed by men. I know I have been countless times.
Men can usually mention one time this has happened to them and that they felt no fear. This is not to minimise street abuse men experience but it is not routinely used as method of intimidation like it is to women.

Maybe the 'jacking himself off on his own' is why his hand feels better than being in you though?