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Original poster

Feminist Choice

59 replies

Blistory · 14/01/2014 20:27

Not a TAAT but prompted by one.

I know that most posters on here despair when people use the I exercised a choice and the fact that I did so itself is feminist, therefore what I did was a feminist act line of reasoning but can making a choice to do something that either is against women or comes from a tradition of oppressing women ever be a feminist choice ?

So on the marriage thread for example, can choosing to use your husband's surname ever be hailed as a feminist act ? So if you know that the tradition behind it is not at all supportive of women, can it really be reclaimed by women as a positive or does the history of how it arose completely wipe it out ?

Trivial example I know but there seem to be so many everyday things that stem from horrible woman oppressing traditions or that have evolved recently to objectify women that I can't see how any woman who has seriously thought about these things can ever call their choice a feminist one. It's a choice, yes, great, but even feminists do anti feminist things.

What am I missing or is this feminism lite that I just don't get ?

OP posts:
scallopsrgreat · 14/01/2014 23:34

Feminism has created choice. It has never been about choice. It has always been about liberating women from male oppression.

The whole 'choice' feminism is a con used to convince women that they do in fact have equal choices to men. When in fact the surrounding structures and pressures that those choices live in, lead you to making the choices you do. It assumes free choice, when that isn't the case. And the inequality of men's and women's choices remain, except of course it's women's own fault because after all they had that choice Hmm

DadWasHere · 14/01/2014 23:15

20+ years ago I told my partner that I had no issues with her keeping her surname when we married, but she chose to have mine. I felt no pleasure or pride in her wanting my name, I did not see it as a gift to me, I just saw it as her choice. Had she decided to keep her name I would not have seen it as a feminist choice, I would not have been disappointed, I would have just seen it as a choice, no more and no less.

But IMO what you talk about Blistory is a manifestation of a problem within feminism itself, attitude to the personal agency of women. The same act (taking the husbands name) it held up as feminist by some who are unhealthily over invested in personal agency or brought low by others more invested in denial of it, that its a false choice where the woman naively chooses (or has it forced on her) a dis-empowerment that serves patriarchy.

Surname- I think its just a choice today, it does not need to be lauded or abhorred. Historically, different story. But isn't history like that? Historically western Europe tore itself apart yet manage to move on, despite Basil Fawlty constantly not mentioning the war?

SinisterSal · 14/01/2014 22:44

has rules that need to adhered to

Otherwise it's all do as I say, not as I do

But I agree you can't - just actually can't - follow them all. But you should try and keep to the spirit of the thing more often than not

SinisterSal · 14/01/2014 22:42

But HamletsSister every group needs rules to need to adhere too.

You couldn't be an environmentalist and then go fly tipping for example.

the interesting bit is deciding on what those rules are Grin

FloraFox · 14/01/2014 22:36

Blistory I agree with you and Terraria. Feminism doesn't amount to much if all it is is the right of all women everywhere to make any choice they like, regardless of its historical background or its impact (or contribution to impact) on women as a class.

Historically women had very few choices in life and therefore first and second wave feminists were working towards liberation of women from oppression which would then lead to women having more choice over their lives. This choice aspect seems to have been co-opted as the goal of feminism in and of itself, in a liberal / libertarian tradition. I don't subscribe to that point of view. I prefer to view feminism as the liberation of women as a class and choices made by women can either support that (feminist choices), work against that (non-feminist choices) or have no bearing on it.

I agree with Terraria that you can be a feminist even though not every choice you make is a feminist choice, we all have lives to lead and other factors in our lives. But calling yourself a feminist does not magically transform all your choices into feminist choices.

Original poster
Blistory · 14/01/2014 20:49

Sorry HamletsSister, I deliberately started a new thread to ponder this rather than continue on the other one for the exact reason that I didn't want you to think that I was having a go at you.

I wanted to be able to discuss it for the very reason that I wanted to challenge my thinking, not because I think my view is the only one so I'm genuinely sorry if you're offended by this thread.

OP posts:
Original poster
Blistory · 14/01/2014 20:46

Absolutely TerrariaMum, I often do things myself knowing that it's not particularly feminist but I don't beat myself up about it nor do I feel that I can't call myself a feminist.

But there is real resentment when you encounter someone who insists that the fact they made a choice is the feminist part of the act and that that is all that matters, that it makes me wonder if feminism has gone wrong somewhere to the extent that it is so misunderstood.

Is feminism lite the way to attract more women to feminism and accept that at least it's a starting point or does that just defeat the very purpose of feminism ? Does it become corrupted by diluting it to such an extent or have I just gotten high and mighty about my brand of feminism ?

OP posts:
HamletsSister · 14/01/2014 20:38

I didn't realise that feminism was an exclusive club with specific rules that had to be followed in order to be allowed to join. In that case, I am a womanist. I think females should be allowed to do whatever they choose.

TerrariaMum · 14/01/2014 20:36

I think the problem stems from the misguided idea that everything you do has to be feminist for you to be allowed to refer to yourself as a feminist.

What this forgets is that we are all human and doing our best to get by. I took my husband's name for my own reasons but I do acknowledge that, due to the history, it isn't a feminist choice. But I will still call myself a feminist even if every choice I make doesn't fit perfectly with the ideology.