Aaarrrgghh pissed of with it now!

We had a self employed Dad who arranged work so he could do school pick up. He was perpetually late.

No one pulled him up on it, had a woman been that late (whatever her working arrangements) something would have been said.

I know I've been moaned at for my awful time keeping.

It may also fe a huge part of why I don't put up with that shit long-term in a relationship. Funny enough, my Ex-P that I booted out for being insufferable about housework is doing all the housework and the majority of Childcare whilst I've been I'll recently. Yes, he's still an Ex, but his mother refused to run around after him when we split up 2 years ago, and he's HAD to learn how to do it all. It gives me a perverse sense of satisfaction to know that he has finally learnt the error of his ways. I hope his future partner is grateful!

My father was a far more 'natural' parent than my mother ever was or will be. He was also far better at homework. I suspect this may be a huge part of the reason why HE was my lone parent and not my mother...

its really nice to hear about all these relationships where men pull their weight domestically. I 100% agree that is how it should be for everyone, however I dont agree that it is "normal" as some have said. I live in Latin America and the things i see, hear and experience just make life one long series of face palms - the attitudes to what constitute men and womens "work" are just unbeleeeeeevable (I stop traffic outside my house when I mow my own lawn, I have been told off for not serving men drinks at parties at which i am a guest) . It seem to me that it is just a tiny proportion of western developed countries that have cultures anywhere near accepting of shared domestic work, so when people have told you that you are "lucky" - I think you really are! In a lot of parts of the world, there is still a very very long way to go in changing society's attitudes to this.

It sets my teeth on edge when I hear my friends talk about how 'useless' their husbands are at anything domestic, with the unspoken assumption that it's because they're men. Kind of like why women can't drive/read maps/compose music.

I sometimes mention that my DH is the more naturally domestic one in our relationship, and wonder where that leaves me (am I a 'proper' woman in their eyes? - not that it should matter, but I feel kind of left out). I also often point out that having an 'angel in the house' DH has its down sides. Sometimes I really, really long for him to STOP looking at the state of the house and tidying up. I wish just once in a while he would let the dust on the mantelpiece alone and sit down and relax. I wish he would go to bed at 11 sharp instead of suddenly deciding to tidy the utility room and not stopping till 1.30 am, which means I can't go to bed either because I feel guilty. But dumping all the clothes on the bedroom floor/leaving dirty saucepans around isn't great either. There's a happy medium somewhere, I'm just not sure what it is.

Tantrums, how is your FIL still standing?

Have you ever countered with, "why would you think that when we earn the same?" Would his head explode?

There are 2 things wrong with the "women let men behave like this" argument.

1. It makes women responsible for men's behaviour. Men are responsible for their own behaviour.

1. It implies that men are inherently, naturally freeloaders on women's labour. They aren't. They learn to freeload from the cultural messages they are given and they are responsible for unlearning the assumptions that make them unashamed to freeload.

I am so pleased to read about all these men who are doing so much around the house. it helps me to feel that the world is sane after all.

My relationship is similar to most of you. We each do as much as we can given our work schedules. I work from home and therefore do tidying during the week. On the weekend we each do around the same amount. My husband cooks almost every night and the kids clean the kitchen after. I make sure the kitchen is clean for him to cook.

One of the kids cleans the bathroom and one vacuums. I do the washing (mostly) and we each iron only the clothes we need.

Hubby does ALL the DIY. perhaps the only place in our house where things are strictly based on usual sexist values. but it is also his day job and he is good at it.

That said - my husband gets plenty of praise for his cooking - something I never seem to get. it could be simply because I am not a good cook. His efforts around the house (DIY) are also more noticeable and therefore praised more. it never really bothers me though, because i know how things are and that is all that matters. i am not out to prove anything because we are happy with the setup.

If I had a quid for every person who told me I was soo lucky to have a DH who was prepared to be a SAHD I'd be rich. No, he was lucky to have a wife who was prepared to put her plans on hold and stay in a job that was grinding me down so he could give up work.

There are no gendered roles in our house. Apart, possibly DIY. I am the queen of the flatpack and DH is just confused by diagrams with no words. We do what we enjoy. I find folding clothes quite calming whereas DH loves to do the supermarket shop.

It's simply practical. DH got home from work earlier than me last night. I staggered in an hour later exhausted and in pain from some medical tests. If I had cooked dinner in that state it would have been inedible. It only took one look for him to realise that so I was sat in a chair with a G&T while he cooked dinner and harassed the child about her homework. This is how adults who respect each other behave.

tantrums

DH irons his own clothes too.

Drilling is my weak point. But I'm sure I can do it if I put my mind to it. I'm very good at reading instructions.

My FIL told me I should give up my "little job" because it was unacceptable that DH had to come home and do stuff in the house/with the children when he had his career to concentrate on.
(My little job actually pays me the same as DH "very important job, but why let the truth get in the way)

Once, this was a few years ago now, they were at our house on Sunday afternoon. At 4pm, DH said to me, I'm off to do the ironing.
His dad nearly had a fit. He was furious. He kept asking me why it was DHs job to iron his own clothes for work? Why could I iron his shirts?
I took a ridiculous amount of pleasure in explaining that not only was he ironing his work clothes, he was doing the 3 DCs school uniform and my work clothes.
He was disgusted. He even suggested I teach dd who was 11 at the time to iron so DH "could have a rest before his busy week at work"
He also cannot get over the fact that DH picks up ds2 from after school club, that should so be my job

It's stupid. DH does the ironing because he enjoys it. He goes upstairs, watches a film and irons
I do most of the laundry because I like folding clean clothes and putting them away. We take it it turns to do the bathroom because we both hate doing it.

Surely, if there are 2 adult people living in the house, then they both just do what needs to be done?

Fwiw my FIL stopped visiting when he saw me with a drill, putting up a curtain rail. He said I was "emasculating" my DH

I agree. Never say "help me do ". (I have to consciously stop myself though - it's so ingrained!)

I totally hear you! The only thing I disagree with is "women allow men to behave like this".

Would you really do as little as you could get away with just because someone else is willing to do it for you? I say (whisper it) that shows a lack of kindness.

I'd never say that in rl though as I wouldn't want it to make anyone sad.

I agree puddock I don't even use those words when I ask the DC to do something, because most of the time it's not particularly for me. Generally it's for all of us, e.g. getting the washing in or setting the table.

My own mum's simple advice on how not to instil this stuff in your own children? Make sure that, whenever you're talking about housework or wifework, you never use these two little words:
"... for me".

Helps everyone in the household appreciate that this stuff is nobody's domain, we all share doing it because it has to be done, and not as a duty by the mother and a favour by everyone else.

ITA with so many things expressed here. We both work p/t, both care for our DCs, both do housework. We lived together before we became a couple and for a few years before DCs came along, and our attitude was always - whyever wouldn't we organize things this way? But I'm always being told how amazing DP is, how remarkable it is that he can take care of the children, isn't he a "gem"... Pfft. It's patronizing to him and hugely sexist.

What's noticeable is that, at uni and pre-kids, we knew lots of equable couples that did the same - and then when one of them had a baby & maternity leave, there was this shift into breadwinner and homemaker mindsets - much more so than the actual practicalities of who was at home and who was earning would require.

I hear you (as does DH). He's recently been told he's good, or coping really well when out with all three DC. I went away for the weekend not long ago and likewise people were marvelling that I was able to and that he could 'cope' alone. He finds it quite insulting and annoying as he knows full well that I never get the same comments. But of course I'm a woman so it comes naturally .

My DH hated it when I was on mat leave and not earning, he hated the pressure of being the main breadwinner, I think he'd love it if I did more at home, but if doing his far share of home stuff means I do my fair share of earning, he steps up. And he knows that's the right thing to do, we respect each other, we do nice things for each other.

I do think women allow men to be lazy, I also think it is hard to not get controlling about childcare and housework when you have been the person at home. Then it's easier for men to not bother. DH and I don't always agree, but I let him crack on, because I'm not in charge of the kids and I don't want to be. We do discuss and agree generally, when I hear him shouting though I do fight an urge to intervene and calm the waters, but I normally fight it, because if I did breeze in every time, it would undermine him.

I was told the other day that my dp is a saint . I work ft (term time only as I'm a teacher) and dp works pt (4 days), so during term time he does more around the house than I do because I'm busier, then in school holidays I do more.

When I said this to the mum of one of dd2's friends she first of all looked horrified that he was pt and I am ft, she assumed I would prefer it to be the other way around. Then when I said I liked it because he does most of the housework on his day off so we both get the weekend without worrying about washing etc and she was absolutely amazed that he'd do that. She asked how I got lucky enough to be married to such a saint (we aren't married actually). I did ask if she'd think a woman who worked pt and did most of the housework, she looked uncomfortable and said no she probably wouldn't, but it's so much more unusual for a man to do it.

I hear you, OP.

Don't get me started on this my dp is "amazing" and I am "so lucky" because we share housework/childcare. Actually I probably so slightly more tbh. We are both out the house full time.

I also feel that there is an insinuation that I am a lazy slattern and a bad mother when these comments are made. Makes my blood boil.