Has marriage become for men only?

here is the guidance for deciding if couples are living together for benefits purposes - as you see there are no rules or definitions, just guidance. This descision is taken at a point in time for benefits purposes, proving it is true for a period of time, say 5 years, particularly if one member does not want to would be impossible. Basically it would only be proven if both partners benefit - ie cost to the govt for pensions, IT - no benefit to an unmarried/CP poorer partner.

When do you start co-habiting? First night, staying over a few nights a week - what if you retain your own home/space at parents? how do you prove they lived there? what about working abroad/forces family, are you living together if one of you spend 6 months abroad on tour?

I think that education is the only way. There are significant/impossible difficulties in defining co-habitation.

chunderella what do you propose we do about the 'common law' spouse issue - you cannot force people into a contract - which is what marriage or CP is

Interesting, DD is at Uni and has no intention of marrying as she thinks a career is where she wants to go. If that changes or not over the next few years you never know but she certainly sees a partner as a hindrance which is strange as at her age I was desperate to marry and have kids.

DS1 is 15 and adamant that he will never get married. He feels that even being a parent nowadays has too many complications so he intends to have short term relationships. Still at 15 most of us would be against marriage. His GF is 18 and I have no idea what she wants out of life but no matter what I may feel about her he is mature enough even at that age to make choices.

So children of both Sexes and neither side views marriage in a positive way.

Doctrine - exactly! CPs aren't about taking marriage away from people who want it but the cultural baggage of the terms 'husband' and 'wife' isn't for everyone

Sure, they can do all those things and many people do, but as a mechanism exists that is new and therefore culturally free of any implications, why not use that?

Personally I'm happy with marriage and actually got married in a church, but that doesn't mean I don't see the argument for CPs for any who would prefer them.

DWH, yes, I think that's the point - CPs come without the heritage of being "given away" by your father, "automatically" changing your name, only the woman promising to "love, honour and obey" etc.

Well, that sounds reasonable and good but doesn't the UK already possess mechanisms for getting married without all the monolithic expectations that go with the 'event day' so to speak? Cant a couple just walk into a marriage registry office or have a state authorised person marry them, cant they write there own vows? Cant they elope and get married just the two of them like my parents-in-law did back in the day? Does not the state allow a woman to opt out of taking her partners surname if she wants? Is the concept and execution of restrictive 'marriage' in the UK a burden of law, social structure, family expectation or all three?

DWH, yes, I think that's the point - CPs come without the heritage of being "given away" by your father, "automatically" changing your name, only the woman promising to "love, honour and obey" etc.

I would like to think it would be the same here!

I would assume that a proper civil partnership would confer the same rights and responsibilities as a marriage. If that's the case then what is being changed? The balls and chains linked to to the term 'marriage' so that the 'partnership' is not tied down by historical and religious assumption and convention in the same way 'marriage' is?

'I think straight couples should be allowed to have civil partnerships. I would definitely prefer that'

Completely agree. It may well be a possibility - Peter Tatchell has a case going through the European Court of Human Rights arguing that the twin ban on gay marriage (now resolved) and opposite sex CPs is unlawful. Judgement is expected this year and he is confident of winning.

Apparently in Holland, where CPs are available to both same sex and opposite sex couples, over two thirds of them are taken up by opposite sex couples. It's a similar picture in France. I would like to think it would be the same here!

Statistically, most divorces are instigated by the woman... and yet in the same post you say, ...(men) have affairs which they get away with...

So by your own logic they are not getting away with it. There is a lot of good sense in this discussion, but also some contradictory tripe. My own anec-data suggests that plenty of women are having affairs and then filing for divorce. Let's have some balance please, people.

Statistically, most divorces are instigated by the woman. So this indicates that men enjoy marriage more - and I think this is because they have more freedom within the bounds of marriage.

They leave the home more often, have more time away from the children, have most of their domestic life taken care of, have affairs which they get away with, never have to give up their earning potential, feel valued outside of the home and get praise from everyone around them for what a great provider they are...

Women have the opportunity to bring up children with more financial security - but what else is there?

Obviously not all men are like this - but even in a situation where they no longer love their wives, they stick at the marriage because it works for them.

Women often have the feeling that there must be more to life and set out to find it. Men think they have found it already.

So I went in to the relationship with more assets and earn more 10yrs and 2 kids down the line I don't see the advantage to marrying house is in my sole name what advantage is there to me as a woman (apart from the romantic crap) to marry genuine question I've been wondering for years now

I assume you mean that you wish to protect children from male violence. So how do you see the future, Mary? More single mothers? Communes of women sharing child-raising roles?

For those of us who earn a lot more than men hiring it rather than buying it remains a better option for self preservation and indeed to protect our children. Usually of course that is reversed as sadly men still earn more than women although hopefully not for long.

DWH a lot of my friends are unmarried with children,some in relationships some not. Any social gathering of any form the women get comments such as No wedding bells yet,Aw you're not giving us a day out,Has he got you on hire purchase whereas the men tend to get Sure you're almost a single man,There's still time to get out of it.
Time and again if a woman announces a second pregnancy without a marriage there's an air of disapproval whereas a man announcing a pregnancy without marriage is given pats on the back and hands shook.

There IS still a social pressure on women in this regard as Solid has said. Here is a current thread which is a good example of this.

How? I dont see that at all; I read the whole thread. All I see is an overly invested mother wanting to re-imagine her life and partially heal the damage of her own earlier mistakes by living vicariously through her daughter. That is not social pressure, that's her parental hang up. What are the majority of 'social' messages saying back to her in reply? Back off mum and let your daughter live her own life and make her own mistakes, which seems like the exact opposite to your point.

There IS still a social pressure on women in this regard as Solid has said.

Here is a current thread which is a good example of this.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/1953702-Idiot-daughter-has-dumped-lovely-boyfriend