is there and 'official' feminist view on prostitution? and what is it?

It may well have been Brian from Hull.

Though I couldn't swear to it, I bleached my brain so thoroughly appear to have also erased the memory of his name as well as all his yoni details.

Well, I haven't come across many but I do remember one who was linked to on here who went on and on about yoni, though I appear to have erased the details from my mind.

Er, he came across as a creepy predator, can't think why. Perhaps someone knows of one who doesn't come across that way?

There's one called Brian from Hull, I believe.

Basil - there are, actually, quite a few men who set themselves up as sexual healers/therapists and charge for their services. That might be an interesting side-discussion eg are they creepy predators or meeting needs in a worthy fashion?

I still don't see why the idea of women willingly engaging in sex work seems to infuriate some feminists so much more than women willingly engaging in marriage/longterm heteromonogamous relationships that are unequal.

I don't see why any woman would settle for an unequal marriage either SGB, but given that as a society there are still many women who do not have equality within marriage some may decide that being penetrated by one man a few occasions a week is preferable to being penetrated by scores of losers who may beat you, assault you or give you the latest unsocial disease they may be harbouring because of their promiscuity.

Have liked Sheila Jeffrey's FB page and see I have two "friends" there already

www.facebook.com/abolishprostitutionnow

www.facebook.com/abolishprostitutionnow

This is a new international campaign to abolish prostitution.

WRT to your last sentence, SGB, both those things infuriate me and I am equally vocal in my hatred of them. Don't fall into that daft old trap of saying "you can't protest against X, because you don't protest against Y"

it's just a slightly better-thought out twist to the "don't you buy t shirts from Primark then" trotted out by people with no argument, but no less a straw argument when we are talking about the objectification of women

Arf Buffy.

Well I think being owned by men and treated as a thing by them, whether as a wife or a prostitute, is an equally bad deal tbh.

I think women should be striving for a much better deal.

How many sex workers are men who consider themselves healers/ therapists for their female clients?

I can see why women would adopt a positive outlook to ensure that they feel good about what they do, but actually, what medical therapy requires you to enable someone to penetrate you? I can also see why women would shrug and say that the fact that their DH never does any housework is a small price to pay for being a wife, but in both cases, I don't understand why feminists are supposed to nod along and agree that that's all fine and there's nothing to discuss here, move along.

You're setting up an Aunt Sally SGB - feminists don't like women being used for housework/ sex in a marriage any more than they like them being used for it in a brothel. We can be against both.

I am infuriated by women like Brooke Magnanti who promote their privileged experience in prostituion as the voice of all women in prostitution. I am not infuriated by her or any other woman's attitude to sex. If she or anyone else wants to have man-pleasing sex with men who don't care about the fact the she doesn't want to have sex with him, I don't see it as positive or empowering but I'm not infuriated about that. The media is entranced with the glamourised version of prostitution she presents where women go to high class hotels and have drinks then sex with some rich and attractive guy and ignores women on the street or in brothels having sex with 10+ random strangers every night.

I can't see how presenting yourself as an object for penetration without regard to your desires is "healing". I would say that it is perpetuating a man's entitlement to sex on his terms without regard to his partner's. Continuing male entitlement one fuck at a time seems a more appropriate description.

I am infurated at the entitled perverts who use women in this way, SGB, not the women themselves.

That long history of marriage is exactly that now; history. It is no longer the law that the man owns the woman. It is an anachronism.

Given the long history of marriage as being the legal ownership of women by men, some women feel that sex work is a better deal (you can send the client away when the transaction is over; you don't have to do the housework as well). Also, there are sex workers - a minority, but a sizeable one, who consider themselves as healers/therapists. I don't see why their viewpoint is any less valid than that of the woman who believes that sex for her has to be about love and desire and nothing else.
I still don't see why the idea of women willingly engaging in sex work seems to infuriate some feminists so much more than women willingly engaging in marriage/longterm heteromonogamous relationships that are unequal.

It is innit?

I recommend signing up to that Facebook page, you get little snippets of her writing every couple of days and it's always something interesting and thought-provoking.

basil that quote is fantastic.

OP the Catholic Church has had zero impact on evolution. In evolutionary terms we are the same beings now as we were 2000 years ago. Don't use evolution to excuse your desire to pay a woman who does not want to have sex with you. The fact that the Catholic Church is mispgynistic and opposes prostitutuion is not a good reason to be in favour of having sex on someone who does not want you.

Your views are typical of men who want women to be public property rather than private property of one man.

Also, not all libertarians approve of prostitution. Ayn Rand's view was that it was immoral. So don't use your cod knowledge of imaginary "free markets" or libertatrianism to justify having sex with someone who does not want you.

If you can't find a willing partner for sex, perhaps reflect on why that is so.

There's a Sheila Jeffreys Facebook page which posts little snippets from her writing. This is coming up today which is so aposite:

“The effect of legalised prostitution on women outside prostitution is to lower the status of all women. Women are recognised by the state in this system as the appropriate objects of male penetration with no consideration for their personhood or pleasure. This teaches that the penetration and use of an unwilling woman is ‘sex’, an idea that lies at the root of sexual violence against women in general. There is no chance of developing a sexuality of equality in which women’s pleasure, right to say no, and bodily integrity are respected whilst the violence of prostitution is allowed to continue with state support for men’s behaviour.”

• Sheila Jeffreys, from interview on May 13, 2012

Dad I think those women's views are also influenced by the constant message that men want sex all the time and are always up for it.

So in their minds, by paying a man to shag them they're doing him a favour - he would do it for free anyway, the thinking goes. (It's not thinking I agree with because I don't buy the myth that men are always up for sex - I don't think they would have been able to rule the world if they were such slaves to it - but that ridiculous attitude is extremely widespread and encouraged by a media which appears to believe that it's desirable for everyone to believe that men are more obsessed with sex than women are.)

Whereas men who are OK with paying for sex are having their ideas and attitudes shaped in a society which sends out very different messages about women. Women aren't supposed to enjoy sex, just gatekeep it. Except when they are supposed to enjoy it otherwise they're fridid. Or something. So the implications of them handing over money to a woman for sex, are different. Some men get positively turned on by the idea that the woman they are using actively dislikes what they're doing, while others kid themselves the women they use enjoy it because that fiction preserves their sense of themselves as decent men. I wonder if the women you knew who were OK with the idea of buying sex for themselves, would be quite so keen on the idea if presented with the notion that they would probably be buying it from a young man who had been raped or sexually abused, was emotionally vulnerable and really didn't want to do it but was forcing himself to for the money. Not such a turn on for most women, while for many male punters, not such a problem?

I can't imagine wanting to have sex with someone who didn't want to have sex with me, I would feel so gross, so repulsive. We need to look at creating a society where this is not ok in men's heads.

Look, as a man the idea of having sex with someone who does not sexually desire me, I feel the same way as you, the idea repels me. Nothing to do with morality, it simply repels my sexuality. I, sought of, understand and accept the perspective of some men who are dysfunctional and deluded, but the bulk of men who use prostitution services seem to be those I would happily pack on a rocket ship and send off planet.

But that said I lived with a woman for three years and, as an idea, it was quite 'OK in her head' to pay for her sexual satisfaction from a man (although whether she ever did or not is unknown to me). I have met other women who felt the same way. I suspect (purely personal speculation) that the proportion of women who would 'feel OK in their heads' about the idea would be very similar to men. I think that the 'thinking' you are talking about is not nearly as gender biased as you might believe. I think its simply far more rarely acted out in women because men are commonly more compliant in providing sex when women seek it, as well as women being more cautious in terms of behaviour and safety about seeking paid services. Also the supply of services to women is far less prevalent, and the uncommon nature of it further suppresses use of it.

at Yule.

SGB - is it ok to pay for blood donations or for surrogacy? Those are things that touch someone's bodily integrity without in themselves being "risky" activities. Yet society outlaws payment for these things.

I see prostitution as more like these things, you see it as more like being paid for care work.

and YuleTime

Let's get to the bottom of the issue. I have an 'official' feminist view on prostitution -

if there are a lot of sad lonely men who can't get any women because of evolution but are absolutely desperate for sex then they can all meet up and suck each other's dicks. It'll even save them money!
"But I'm not gay!!" I hear you say. No? Then you're not desperate enough. Happy holidays!