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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

AIBU to think that men who declare that the reason for xyz structural inequality is "women's choices"...

32 replies

AskBasilAboutCranberrySauce · 18/12/2013 21:00

... are in fact buying into that notion because they are deeply reluctant to recognise that structural sexism exists?

And the reason people don't want to recognise that structural sexism/ racism/ disablism/ insert ism here exists, is because they have a deep seated (sometimes subconscious) vested interest in keeping it there because they benefit from it but they can't bear to admit even to themselves, that they benefit from it because to do so would be to either change their mind and recognise it (which would be emotionally and intellectually challenging), or explode their own image of themselves as nice, reasonable, decent, fair-minded people?

But that in fact, unless they are very young and inexperienced or very uneducated indeed, they are simply nobs of the nobbiest variety?

I am really fucking sick of them. Really sick of being told that structural disadvantage exists because of the choices of the group who are disadvantaged within that structure, with no reference to the choices of anyone else, particularly not of the group who are the advantaged ones and who directly benefit from the structure.

Presenters and guests of the Today programme, fuck off. Friend's husbands, fuck off. Smug white middle class men who assume that they've been treated the same as women all their lives so the fact that they are now doing better than most women they know is solely because they are exceptionally talented people and being white, male, middle class and able-bodied hasn't helped them even one smidgeon, just please, fuck off. Apart from anything else, you are unutterably tedious.

Ah that feels better. Grin

OP posts:
YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 18/12/2013 21:41

Should say he came out with most of this while giving us women on the course a pep talk on how to succeed!

AskBasilAboutCranberrySauce · 18/12/2013 21:41

Yep.

Teachers, estate agents, dentists, lawyers - all have seen pay drops as women entered the trade.

Today programme today: woman on talking about the fact that women don't get promoted because they don't do small-talk. They focus on the job. They don't build social capital by networking.

Everyone forgets that when they do that, they get thought to be gossiping, wasting time, chatting, doing nothing, not pulling their weight.

Men talking about the match - networking, bonding. Women talking about the weekend - gossiping, time-wasting.

Never a hint that when women do what men do, it gets construed as a negative.

OP posts:
YouMakeMeWannaLaLa · 18/12/2013 21:40

For shiz!

I had a white, upper-middle class, british male as my tutor as uni. He insisted that, get this, that in Britain today, white, male 'natives' were the most discriminated against people. He forced us all to promise to never fill in those anonymous diversity questionnaires you get (when applying for jobs etc.) because if they saw you were white/male they would treat you badly or ignore you so they could fulfil their 'ridiculous' quotas. Hmm Shock Angry

He was one of the most important people at the uni, had a professorship, was well monied (had inherited the family farm, over his sisters, natch Hmm) but still thought he had it tough. Thought it was easy for women to get ahead because they have quotas and a special minister and the fact that men can make it without all that just shows that it women who choose not to make the effort. AAArgghh

Afraid to say I sort of swallowed it at the time, because you are taught to respect educated, powerful men, but he makes sick, looking back.

TheDoctrineOfSanta · 18/12/2013 21:36

I'm not even sure it's "like to do" - I think there evidence that in some professions that became more female dominated, relative pay dropped.

contortionist · 18/12/2013 21:31

I'm not sure whether this is what you're talking about, but it's always struck me that the very common explanation of the gender pay gap as being due to women generally preferring lower-pay occupations has things exactly the wrong way round. I'd say instead that things which women in general like to do are valued less.

Loopytiles · 18/12/2013 21:26

[Grin]

TheDoctrineOfSanta · 18/12/2013 21:16

Sing it, sister.

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