AIBU to think that if MN are willing to boycott certain groups on ethical grounds

it is perfectly possible to dislike something or disagree with it without feeling the need to ban it

Sabrina, I'm defending them because you think they have one voice, one mindset, one viewpoint. You judge a group by its most extreme and make out that is the norm.
I assume you don't think this for feminists.

You don't think there are any sub-groups or branches within the movement. You are deliberately being misleading.

This type of lying will only inflame both movements

I think like all extreme groups the MRAs make a few fair points of areas where the law or society does treat men less equally than men: (parental rights/boys level of attainment at school/assumptions in DV cases), which shouldn't be ignored and do need to be addressed. Some feminists (like me) believe in equality for all and feel that any injustices need to be fought against.

But they then extend the argument to further their misogynistic agenda.

By banning them it adds credence to their belief that they are mistreated, adding to their indignation. Giving more power to their argument that men are treated poorly.

I'm sorry sabrina but much of what has gone on this thread is what's wrong with mumsnet.

treen has expressed an opinion (the extreme does not represent the whole) she has then been labelled a MRA and told to defend them. how does that even work?

When you defend them, you are speaking up for them, treen. Why are you defending them?

isn't this backing and forth ing exactly the problem?

you will find as many definitions good and bad as you find feminists. I suspect the same is true of men's groups.

which is exactly why banning I whole group is impractical amd massively wrong.

disagree with the opinions. tell them why report those that break the rules ban individuals

No, we're just trying to stop them putting what is basically hate speech against women all over MN.

No Sabrina, I didn't want to speak for a group I am not a member of. That's all

Why don't the MRAs and feminists, excluding the extreme sections of each, get on with what they want to. Stop all this fighting and lying.

"Attacking feminism will not stop men committing crimes, attacking each other or not doing as well in school."

And attacking MRAs won't stop the wage gap, FGM, or an unrepresentative Parliament, but here we all are anyway.

That does leave me pretty speechless, yes, Sue.

Treen - are you trying to make out that the MRM is reasonable? I thought you didn't know enough about it to answer a simple question?

Urban Dictionary - Radical Feminism:

1. A 'current' in feminism that views gender relations and sexism as the direct result of a system of patriarchy and an androcentric (male-centered) society. Radical feminists go beyond critiques of legal systems, and critique the entire culture of gender and sex.

Radical feminism aims to challenge and to overthrow patriarchy by opposing standard gender roles and androcentrism, and calls for a radical reordering of society. These suggestions often include the abolition of gender roles, the support of GLBTQ rights and liberation, the restructuring of the family, and economic changes to end any gendered privileges.

Radical feminism has been around for a long time, but really began to developed into its current form during the Second Wave of feminism, and further evolved with the Third Wave, in which feminists began to explore the way sexism affects and is affected by other forms of antagonism and oppression, such as class and race.

Bit more accurate, that one

How does attacking MRAs further feminist causes, Sabrina?

I guess your answer, if my stunning rhetoric didn't leave you speechless , would be that MRAs are attacking feminism, so attacking MRAs is defending women and women's causes.

Except that's the exact thing that MRAs believe, at least the ones who actually believe feminism needs attacking (not all do, most are pretty egalitarian). So both sides attack each other, believing it's self-defense, and nothing of use gets done.

Sabrina, the extreme MRAs attacking feminist. As is extreme feminists attacking the causes normal men's rights members are doing.

I think you are starting to get it

1. radical feminism

A hate-speech movement which aims to eliminate the rights of men and non-feminist women and deny people the freedom of speech. Adherents of the movement use the actions of men and an imaginary "patriarchy" as an excuse for why there lives are so pathetic and unfulfilled.
Grace belives in radical feminism and therefore blames the "patriarchy" for the sad state of affairs that is her life.

All from the Urban Dictionary. Not really very accurate is it?

me too. as much as I wish some of the stuff could be deleted I do actually agree with mumsnet when do and don't. from what I have seen it's pretty consistent, always I can see why they have and haven't deleted. but I'm new to the feminist area....

So, how does attacking feminism further those causes, Sueford?

I did. I'm not exactly sure, I wouldn't want to misrepresent. You wouldn't ask an extreme MRA to explain feminism, and likewise the other way round.
I'm sure it ranges from extreme MRAs to moderate MRAs.

I could guess prostate cancer

Just for balance, from the Urban Dictionary.

1. radical feminist

Homelessness, suicide, violence, rape, dangerous working conditions, lower educational achievement, higher criminal punishment, institutional sexism in DV cases, social expectation to be providers/brutes/disposable, draft (American), etc etc.

As for what they're doing about it, I've heard about a couple of male homeless shelters, efforts to get men's centres on campuses, some petitions, that sort of thing. I imagine it's not so easy to get traction or funding for men's issues, when some people don't believe that there even could be "men's problems", or deny it's possible to be sexist against men.

I'm not sure she is. I think treen is saying that the worsy of a sector of the population does not necessarily represent the whole.

a bit like saying the whole of mumsnet is unsupportive after looking at AIBU

Treen, how do you personally feel about the guidelines and the consistency with which they are applied?

Paperlantern - I do.