Mumsnet in the news

At the risk of being picky and a rule-breaker, I notice that the INdy whine cites a poster who has been banned, so he's found quite an old thread to moan about. (No, nothing to do with Anyfucker).

It's all very interesting isn't it ?

Several recent articles, the DM with Jenni Murray, The Independent (lost innocence of journalist ), and The Observer (most balanced, "And you're shocked ?" - also on Guardian website)

I was most shocked by the lack of integrity of Jenni Murray. I thought she'd stick up for women and mothers, and was disappointed that she sold out to the DM.

I was incredibly upset about these comments yesterday but your comments Basil and Starballs put it into even deeper context.
We have a massive Madonna/whore complex in society Its fucking HUGE. And the DM and their ilk are only too happy to feed on it and emphasize it at every turn and every chance they get.

Why is it so wrong for women to talk about our needs. Im so sick of some ppl as seeing women as either virgins or whores. I had a cry about it because its so bloody depressing.
Thanks for these posts Basil and Starballs You have articulated it so well

Some EXCELLENT points on this thread. I have talked about my marriage quite a bit on MN.

I was talking to a female friend about my situ yesterday and a bloke friend of hers was earwigging.
He said to me, a. sex isnt everything.
b. Why dont you become an escort if you like sex so much
So what he really meant was.... Sex isnt everything for women cos they shouldnt like it anyway

And why dont you become an escort because the mens needs have to be fullfilled

So that is a good example of how womens needs are seen by society.

The DM and the Torygraph feel their main readership is the sort of person, who in an ideal world would still live in the perfect village and go to their local CofE church.

Of course the industrial revolution happened and there readers are stuck in suburbia.

But they are still trying to perpetrate the myth that nice people don't talk about the sex they are having. It's OK to speculate about other people's sex lives, but not your own.

Because if everyone talked openly about their own sex lives, if all DCs got decent sex education and sex was just an ordinary part of life, we'd not care about the sex lives of celebs. Teens wouldn't have to seek out porn to answer simple questions (and much of the teen, young people's media is soft porn) and the church wouldn't be able to convinces us sex is dirty.

This makes the media, the church and the establishment in general twitch.

I read the Independent article. It's just weird. I mean, is it really breaking news that a thread in a forum about conception has the word shagging in its title?!? And there's obviously not enough sex on MN as the article has to fill up space with talk of OPKs and mucus ;)

Hadn't thought about the wider context, but you're right OP, it's not great.

Seems to me that there is a lot of 'anxiety' for many in our society around 'us' wimin finding our true selves and gaining back control of our lives in general after hundreds of years of stripping away our 'wild woman' side.

Anyone read 'women that runs with the wolves'? Fab book!

The pendulum swings and 'we' are finding our inner strength, many find that threatening

Interesting, Basil. Do you think that is why those "articles" were written?
It won't shut anyone here up though.

Everyone should be getting their sextips from porn, obviously.

It's funny how they focus on the sex & swearing and none of the advice on pregnancy, the huge variety of issues round childrearing, legal advice, employment advice, consumer reviews, education, language, living abroad, chats about literature, health, exercise, cooking, animals, gardening, not to mention feminism, and everything. All human life is here, which includes sex and swearing, but misses out the massive amount of shared information and support on goodness knows how many topics. It might not be the more obscure threads or whatever which go viral, but it's perfectly possible to spend time here without spending your entire time swearing and talking about sex. It's strange how journalists manage to miss that. Almost like they're only looking at the stuff which supports their argument.

" The Daily M has a large female readership, so web-sites like Mumsnet are direct competition."

Very good point. MN threatens them not only idealogically, but financially as well.

All that shit about things needing to be kept private.

1. Privacy, secrecy, behind closed doors, has always been the friend of the abuser. Vested interests anyone?

1. How is anonymously posting breaching any RL privacy? This isn't about privacy is it, it's about women not even talking about sex theoretically with reference to RL situations with all participants' names redacted.

Men don't want women to acknowledge how they behave behind closed doors. They don't want their dirty little secrets - the coercion, the contempt, the emotional blackmail - being widely known about and acknowledged. If every woman living with a sexual bully or emotional abuser thinks that either everyone lives like this, or that she's the only one and it's because there's something wrong with her, then men get to continue to abuse women without let or hinder. Win win for them. If they all find out that actually, they don't have to put up with it, this seriously threatens the ability of abusive men to abuse with impunity.

Mumsnet has always been a threat to abusive men. Sex as socially constructed is so much bound up with men's abuse of women, that no wonder they are alarmed.

It's so bizarre. Are they trying to badmouth MN by saying posters here talk about sex, omg?! Like sexual things are never discussed elsewhere on the internet. The most hypocritical thing was when DM published the article with the usual celeb bikini crap next to it.
It's a strange way to badmouth MN, I thought the favourite methods was to call it a nest of vipers and manhating and such things.

It's a good thing, isn't it, that these papers don't condone overtly sexualised behaviour by, for example, including photographs of young women posing suggestively in very small bikinis on their web pages alongside unrelated articles. Because that would be hypocritical, if they did that.

Oh wait...

Interestingly, one of the first things that an abusive man does in a new relationship is try to drive a wedge between the woman and her close female friends. This distances her from a sense of perspective and ensures he does not need to compete with such friendships for her time and attention. In this instance, the papers concerned are trying to do the same thing. The Daily M has a large female readership, so web-sites like Mumsnet are direct competition.

I actually think mumsnet is good at raising women's standards. Look at all those women who have left awful partners because of the advice they have been given in relationships. Telling women they are important too and their needs and desires matter, is actually a pretty revolutionary thing.

No wonder certain papers and men don't like what they are now aware, mumsnet is like.

What beachcomber said.
We might gain expectations raise our standards if we all get together and talk about stuff.

Men don't like it when women (particularly those not in the first flush of youth) gather together in large groups and share experiences and stuff.

It gives the the willies (no pun intended).

Plus what others have said about mothers/whores.

If the DM has its way, they'll reopen the asylums and have us all detained for Nymphomania.

Fully agree with you.

I want to expand my knowledge and understanding of women (particularly my girlfriend, but also in general) to unpick the myths around female sexuality. Mumsnet has provided some profound insights.

Good post op. Ive missed all this in the mwdia but was aware of it and you're absolitely right. Which newspapers has this moral outrage been in, out of interest?

Ach its starting for the men too. My 13 year old is very proud of his 8-pack . Although certainly not to the same extreme and not with the same pressure the media are making a fair enough job of sexualising men. We need to continue to normalise sex and sexuality on forums like these. I don't know if our youngsters are getting more aware of the ridiculousness of it all but my older boys are horrified by what miley cyrus feels she has to do to be popular. Itgives me hope.